Adjusting 6 PPC Loads During the Day

K

Kyle Schultz

Member
I'm new to the 6 PPC. I've been reading that it is recommended to adjust loads (generally up) during the day as temperature and humidity change. That seemed reasonable enough until I read in an article by James Mock that this adjustment was necessary because atmospheric changes affect how much powder a volumetric measure will actually dispense. That consequence suggests to me that these adjustments are actually needed to compensate for variations (errors?) in the actual powder charge more so than differences in the bullet's trajectory. If I'm weighing my individual charges at home in a controlled environment and storing them in sealed glass vials until I dump them into the gas and seat the bullet at the range, should I expect the same variations as those who throw their charges at the range? I'm guessing no.
 
Kyle Schultz said:
I'm new to the 6 PPC. I've been reading that it is recommended to adjust loads (generally up) during the day as temperature and humidity change. That seemed reasonable enough until I read in an article by James Mock that this adjustment was necessary because atmospheric changes affect how much powder a volumetric measure will actually dispense. That consequence suggests to me that these adjustments are actually needed to compensate for variations (errors?) in the actual powder charge more so than differences in the bullet's trajectory. If I'm weighing my individual charges at home in a controlled environment and storing them in sealed glass vials until I dump them into the gas and seat the bullet at the range, should I expect the same variations as those who throw their charges at the range? I'm guessing no.
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That should probably work just fine, except you'll probably need a tuner on the barrel to compensate for vibration differences due to the increase in velocity as temps go up during the day. There are quite a few guys that shoot very well doing what you're thinking about.
 
Kyle Schultz said:
I'm new to the 6 PPC. I've been reading that it is recommended to adjust loads (generally up) during the day as temperature and humidity change. That seemed reasonable enough until I read in an article by James Mock that this adjustment was necessary because atmospheric changes affect how much powder a volumetric measure will actually dispense. That consequence suggests to me that these adjustments are actually needed to compensate for variations (errors?) in the actual powder charge more so than differences in the bullet's trajectory. If I'm weighing my individual charges at home in a controlled environment and storing them in sealed glass vials until I dump them into the gas and seat the bullet at the range, should I expect the same variations as those who throw their charges at the range? I'm guessing no.
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Do you really think that the top shooters would be loading at the range if they could win preloading? Are you planning on shooting registered matches? If you are serious, copy the winners.
 
Kyle
I'm far from an expert. There is so much more involved with tuning a ppc to its potential than changing powder weight thru the day. If you are not competing then it doesn't matter.
Sometimes you will need to make a seating depth change to get things to come around or even a totally different powder than what worked the day before
A few are making it work with some success by and large not so much
 
Kyle, you need to get a RCBS ChargeMaster if you want to weigh charges.

I have been using one for a couple of years at Matches, and more and more shooters are using them.

As for adjusting loads, for years I increased the charge by about .3 grn as the humidity went down, (133). But since I can no longer shoot in that upper load window, I can't say what's best.

I'm not even shooting the regular 6PPC combo any more. I have switched to 80 grn Barts, 1-12 twist Barrels with a .140 throat, and 4895. In first Group Match in HV at Seymore, it shot very well and is easy on components.
 
6PPC Loads

jackie schmidt said:
them.

(133). But since I can no longer shoot in that upper load window, I can't say what's best.


I remember, several years ago, when you were shooting brass wrecking loads in a 6PPC and regularly kicking ARSE.

An explanation as to why you can no longer shoot hot loads would satisfy the curiosity of some 6PPC fans.

Got tired of beating up on us? Brass too expensive? Winners nightmares? etc, etc,:D

I apologize if you've already provided an explanation. I haven't been hanging around here a lot lately.


Glenn
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I appreciate everyone's feedback

But I do believe, however, we've lost something in translation. I'm not planning to bring 200 rounds of ammunition already loaded at the same powder charge/seating depth and use that one load regardless of what the target says. What I am considering is pre-weighing individual charges and storing them in capped glass vials. I have 3 cases each holding 144 vials. The budget I'm contemplating is 1 case (144 charges) at my base load. 1 case containing 72 charges 0.1 gr above and below the base, and 1 case holding 48 vials +/- 0.2 grs relative to the base charge and 24 vials holding +/- 0.3 grs relative to the base charge. Will still dump charges and seat bullet at match. I'm having a hard time rationalizing the use of a powder thrower whose repeatability is +/- 0.2 grs. Good luck to us all!
 
Yes, quite a few people used to do just as you describe. Everyone I knew that made the effort to loads vials have given it up for one reason or the other
Some just decided they couldn’t tell a difference on target from thrown charges
Some went to battery powered chargemasters
I haven’t seen anyone in a couple years carrying a box of vials
No reason to not try it for yourself tho at all
 
Chism G said:
jackie schmidt said:
them.

(133). But since I can no longer shoot in that upper load window, I can't say what's best.


I remember, several years ago, when you were shooting brass wrecking loads in a 6PPC and regularly kicking ARSE.

An explanation as to why you can no longer shoot hot loads would satisfy the curiosity of some 6PPC fans.

Got tired of beating up on us? Brass too expensive? Winners nightmares? etc, etc,:D

I apologize if you've already provided an explanation. I haven't been hanging around here a lot lately.


Glenn
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Glenn, the brass will no longer take 30.3 to 30.5 grns of 133 without primer pockets and case heads swelling to and extent that they are severely compromised.

I lived for a long time using as my base load 30.2 grns with a 68 grn bullet and a relative humidity in the 70 percent or higher range. If a front or something cased the humidity to fall down below 40 percent, a increase of .2 to .3 grns would keep the rifle shooting.

Those days are gone.

So I'm trying something different.
Click to expand...
 
Kyle Schultz said:
What I am considering is pre-weighing individual charges and storing them in capped glass vials. I have 3 cases each holding 144 vials. The budget I'm contemplating is 1 case (144 charges) at my base load. 1 case containing 72 charges 0.1 gr above and below the base, and 1 case holding 48 vials +/- 0.2 grs relative to the base charge and 24 vials holding +/- 0.3 grs relative to the base charge.
Click to expand...

So, what happens if the 24 vials of + 0.3 grs shows the best load?
 
Too complicated...

Kyle, with all the vials of pre weighed charges, it’s making more of it than it is, in this sport being +/- .01 doesn’t make a difference! Guys kick tail every weekend throwing charges, a chargmaster makes it easy as there is a certain amount of technique in throwing consistency and you need a really good measure to start with.

The chargmaster is close enough for what we do and you easily have time between matches to reload 10-15 rounds and your not locked in with what loads you brought. I like to go to the line with at least one or two different loads to test after my first group and then work around what looks like is doing best. I’ve had 133 shoot good from 27.8 to 30.2 and sure don’t want to be painted into a corner with only able to shoot with what I brought from the house!
 
Kyle Schultz said:
I'm new to the 6 PPC. I've been reading that it is recommended to adjust loads (generally up) during the day as temperature and humidity change. That seemed reasonable enough until I read in an article by James Mock that this adjustment was necessary because atmospheric changes affect how much powder a volumetric measure will actually dispense. That consequence suggests to me that these adjustments are actually needed to compensate for variations (errors?) in the actual powder charge more so than differences in the bullet's trajectory. If I'm weighing my individual charges at home in a controlled environment and storing them in sealed glass vials until I dump them into the gas and seat the bullet at the range, should I expect the same variations as those who throw their charges at the range? I'm guessing no.
Click to expand...


Kyle, I don't know how long you have been shooting, what your level of experience is etc., but as a retired engineer you certainly have the qualifications to succeed at 100/200 yard group shooting if you have the patience and desire. It's a tough game and you will not reach the top in a year or two but if you are one who enjoys the study of extreme rifle accuracy, interior and exterior ballistics, gunsmithing, mythbusting, etc., it's a fascinating study. I've been at it for thirty years and I'm still learning new things almost daily. After retiring in 2002 I built a 100 yard test tunnel that has taught me a lot about benchrest rifle accuracy.

I suggest you drive out I-20 to Odessa and let's meet. I can help you. If you have an RV I suggest bringing that because with the present oil boom that's going on hotel rooms are outrageous.

In post number 8, Richard Brensing gave you some good advice about learning to use a tuner.

I know where you're at and know how you feel. I've been there.

The best way to contact me is by e-mail. genebeggs@cableone.net

I'll be looking forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely

Gene Beggs
 
jackie schmidt said:
Chism G said:
Glenn, the brass will no longer take 30.3 to 30.5 grns of 133 without primer pockets and case heads swelling to and extent that they are severely compromised.

I lived for a long time using as my base load 30.2 grns with a 68 grn bullet and a relative humidity in the 70 percent or higher range. If a front or something cased the humidity to fall down below 40 percent, a increase of .2 to .3 grns would keep the rifle shooting.

Those days are gone.

So I'm trying something different.
Click to expand...



Understood.
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Preloading

I remember hearing about a competitor that won the Super Shoot, shooting preloaded 6PPC ammo. It would be interesting to hear his opinions concerning preloads. I don't remember his name.

Never say never in this Sport. Thats what makes it so much fun.



Glenn
 
Chism G said:
I remember hearing about a competitor that won the Super Shoot, shooting preloaded 6PPC ammo. It would be interesting to hear his opinions concerning preloads. I don't remember his name.

Never say never in this Sport. Thats what makes it so much fun.



Glenn
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Glenn, his name was Hall from Georgia and unfortunately he has passed away since winning the SS in 2002 (I believe). James
 
Regarding Mr Hall

I remember someone posting the only reason he was able to win the SS was the weather never changed the entire weekend. Don't know if that was a fact or someone trying to preserve tradition. Difficult to imagine weather not changing at all for that long.

I have owned several 6 PPC's and never shot one in a match, afraid my pre-loads would not be good enough to win. I also never wanted to be involved with loading at the range so I opted to shoot 30's and never looked back. I have only shot in one Registered Group match and managed a third place in it. No desire to continue with shooting group. No desire to fool with evil rifles that won't stay in tune either.

Pete
 
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