Action Strength

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
I have a little bit of a problem that is just bugging the heck out of me.

For a number of years, I shot a standard R-L Farley, vintage 1997. This was always my "go to" action, regardless of what barrel, (countless), stock, (four), or what ever went with it to make up a complete Rifle.

This action can take anything I feed it. If I need to go into the upper load window to stay competitive, no problem with bolt lift, sticky cases, etc.

This year I aquired a brand new "everything", mainly because I wanted to go to an ejector.

This new Rifle has been a royal pain. I have never made it shoot as well as the old Farley, but another problem is that it will not allow me to shoot in the upper load window effectivly.

I am on at least the 3d barrel, (Bartliens and Kriegers), and I have checked and double checked everything. I even corrected one glaring flaw, (to a machinist), that I thought was the source of the problem. It helped a little, but not much.

In short, any load that approaches 3400 fps results in a VERY stiff bolt lift. So stiff that, by disturbing the Rifle in the bags, it totally negates any advantage that the ejector offers. Add to that the hing has never shot that well, and the love affair is becoming rather short lived.

Friends who shoot the exact same combo as I do in their Pandas, Vipers, and others have no problems. In this action, even a new case with the upper end load will produce an anoyingly stiff bolt lift at least one out of two shot.

Also, the Diamond Back Drop Port on my Rail Gun will digest anything I feed it with ease.

What is going on here. As most of you know, I did not crawl out of the turnip patch yesterday, but this has got me a tad perplexed.......jackie
 
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Farley

Jackie,
With what you said, my question is, why wouldn't you have an ejector installed in the Farley? :rolleyes:
David
 
The stiff bolt lift is caused by case set back. Somewhere, something is giving and the case is taking up that space. Either by stress of the components themselves, or by critical surfaces not being square/perpendicular. I would like to think any action made nowadays would have the proper steels used and the size of those steels proper to withstand the pressures. Yet, some action handle pressure better.

A friend had a 10" BAT on a Heavy 1K gun. You could trash the brass in one firing, but never felt a stiff bolt. That's when everything is "right".
 
David

I tried it myself, attemped to make it a left port, left eject.

I drilled the plunger and spring hole in what I thought would be the correct position, and of course the small verticle hole for the roll pin to keep it in place. (I had to use Carbide drills and end mills, as this is one ofthe early S-7 Farleys that is a little on the hard side).

It looked really nice, but it did not work. The geometry was not correct, the long left port would allow the case to snap into the bolt raceway, since there was not enough travel left to allow the plunger to pop it out, the case simply fell into the ation floor. I tried several things, but came to the conclusion that it was not going to work. I plugged the plunger hole by tightly pressing a 4141 plug into it, and lightly re-faced the bolt face to make sure everything was square.

I am just thankfull I did not screw the action up. It still shoots as it always did.........jackie
 
Jackie,

I am by no means a master of the high end load but after I get any new action, I work my way up to see if I can find anything that creates hard bolt lift, etc, so that I know where I can and can not go when chasing a tune during a match (I spend way to much time chasing than riding though). Now, having shot the make of action (different models) that you are working with, I only found one that gave me the problem your talking about. I'm sure you have already checked it but for what it's worth....something is out of square. With mine, it was either the action thread or the face that was out (don't remembe which). If the problem is agrivating enough, I would pull the action and run through it just like you do a remington, to make sure everthing is straight. Sometime, as I'm sure you know, the threads, barrel shoulder or chamber being out of line will cause it but I know your barrels are right so it does have to lay in the action.

Oh, stress in the glue-in job can cause it also but a lot less likely.

Send me a email if you still have my address, I believe it's in my profile also. I have some tidbits that won't help but may give a little background on the action.

Hovis
 
Wayne

That is my big fear, that the inherant strength of this action is simply not up to the task. I know in todays high tech world of manufacturing, this is not supposed to be the case, but it is what it is.

For what it is worth, since I fixed some of the "problems", the cases come out dead square, with a good even impression on the bolt face and the case. ......jackie
 
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Al

1.062 18 tpi. Standard Benchrest Action fodder.

I have checked just about everything that you can check short of popping the action out of the stock. Since it came glued in, (a requirement of the stock maker), I really did not want to do that, since I might just cut my losses ans sell the thing.

Or, pop the action out, sell it, and fit something else into the stock, which I REALLY like..........jackie
 
Jackie, I know what action you are talking about and I have heard a great deal about the problem you are having. If you will call Cecil Tucker he can tell you all about it and how to fix it. He's been thru it many times. Cecil can be reached at home at 432-530-2919. His cell phone 432-553-4692.
I know it's discouraging to have trouble with a new rifle that you have poured your heart and money into but this is not uncommon. Don't give up yet. :)

I remember my own experiences with installing ejectors on my two pet Pandas. I thought I needed to be able to shoot faster and theorized that adding ejectors would do the trick. BIG MISTAKE! I just despise spring loaded ejectors on a benchrest rifle! They are a big PITA. :mad: But drop-ports? Now that's another thing entirely; I love 'em! :D That's all I shoot now. :)

Come out to shoot with me in the tunnel. We will have some fun. :D

Gene Beggs
 
cone depth

Jackie:
I've built a fair number of bench guns on the Farley and the one thing that I have noticed is that when boring the breech a LOT of the case is exposed. I keep the bolt to breech face as tight as I dare to and some of these are scary in that they expose a lot of the web area. I always measure from the go gauge (reference point) forward to see where I am. This will tell you how much web you are exposing. I'm sure that you are aware of this but this would cause what you are experiencing without question. Before I would "junk it", set up and set the bolt nose clearance real tight (clearance is just clearance) and try it. Let us know, I'm curious.
Regards....Herb Coates
 
Jackie

I personally think you still have some seaweed wraped or stuck someplace that you have not been able to clean out. You might have to much rust build up to find it.:cool:
 
Herb

To put your mind at ease, this is NOT a Farley. My Farley gives me zero problems.

But, it is good that you did bring up the cone clearance on a Farley. Jim counterbores the bolt pretty deep, and with the 30 degree cone, the end of the cone almost comes forward of the extractor groove.

I set them at .005, but I always stick a fired case in the chamber to see exactly where the forward part of that extractor groove is. You are correct, there is not much room for error lest you uncover the web.............jackie
 
Tom

That adds insult to injury. I finally build a decent looking Rifle, and the thing performs like a good looking woman who thinks all she has to do is lay there and look good........jackie
 
could this radial clearance in the bolt face be a little close or off center.
that this doesn't happen with each case , makes me wonder
 
Decent looking rifle?

Jackie if you built a decent looking rifle then one or more of 3 things are in play

1. its one of those pre-colored or marbled stocks

2. You had a senior moment and thought you were working on one of the race cars, but then again you shoot your guns like they are race cars, fast fast ast:D

3. You just simply had a senior moment and forgot Jackie S does not shoot good looking rifles hehe

See you this weekend
 
I hope

its not a sizing die problem.bump it .002-3 and see?But you already measured all that stuff?
 
jackie,
have you talked to the maker ?
any chance of a bad heat treat ?
mike in co
 
Jackie, I assume this is the CM action you bought at St Louis? If so the physical properties from the heat treat may be the source, not the solution, but the source.
 
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