A guy owns a one-piece cleaning rod,

F

Foxtrotoscar

Guest
a set of screwdrivers, and can explain MOA, everyone thinks he's an expert......every year this time a few people come out of the woodwork and need a 'scope mounted NOW, since they are leaving for somewhere to shoot at deer (not necessarily hunt or hit) and are clueless. I always agree, and sometimes even do a sight-in, then try to explain they should check the zero for how they hold the rifle, but that always falls on deaf ears. Here's my question-any idea of who a good choice to have Ruger to Weaver base adapters for a M-77 ON HAND might be? Brownells is back ordered. I don't want to use the factory rings. At least I was able to talk this particular guy into that much of an upgrade. He also asked me what "bullets" he should get. Sigh. I just now remember being at a sight-in day years back, first had to explain to the shooter I was helping that .243s would NOT group in his .257 Roberts. Then there was the guy with the Schmidt-Rubin shooting .308s. His group could have been worse. Cases looked odd, but that was explained by his S-R being an "army gun". Oh.
 
A Guy etc

An easy out on working on these guns is that you must have an FFL to do gunsmith work. I get the feeling you enjoy what you're doing, but don't keep the guns in your possession unless you have all the licenses and place of business. Life is too short to get cross threaded with the Feds.
 
Riflemeister said:
An easy out on working on these guns is that you must have an FFL to do gunsmith work. I get the feeling you enjoy what you're doing, but don't keep the guns in your possession unless you have all the licenses and place of business. Life is too short to get cross threaded with the Feds.
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So you're implying that the original poster might not have the appropriate credentials/permits/licenses to engage in gunsmithing? Where do you get off suggesting that?

Might it be that he was simply sharing some darkly humorous insight into some of the less appealing aspects of being in the business, along with asking for a tip in finding the item in question?
 
everyone is out of stock for what you want, midsouth is waiting to get them, midway is out. So good luck.

But ya did remind me of a time I was at hunter sight in, a guy came up to sight in his rifle, just bought it, had the thing bore sighted, 1 week before season. Brought 20 rounds with him, got it sighted in, but he was all over the paper, I was watching him flinch every time he went to pull the trigger on that mag, suggested he go buy some more rounds and shoot again, even offered to let him shoot for free, he declined, saying it was good enough to get this buck he had been watching, said it was usually about 300 out from his stand, left with 3 rounds and the idea he was going to pop this buck out to 300 when he couldnt even get 5 shots inside 5 inches at 100 from the bench. Go figure.

My conclusion was too much gun, not enough practice and just plain ignorance. Talked to him the next year, this time he had 3 boxes, a diffrent gun and attitude, HE MISSED. And his buddy got the buck 2 days later :D
 
A guy etc

I assumed that if he was a licensed gunsmith, he would not have started his post the way he did. Thanks for flaming me for it though, where do you get off?
 
Riflemeister said:
I assumed that if he was a licensed gunsmith, he would not have started his post the way he did. Thanks for flaming me for it though, where do you get off?
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I agree with you --- correct in your statement you are. Hopefully, he got his question answered and some sage advice.
 
Foxtrotoscar

Give the "Wolf's Den" in Hugo, MN a call. They might have what you need. I needed a set of bases for a Browning 1885 single-shot rifle and they had it in stock.

(651) 426-2906
 
Riflemeister, You have just learned an important thing about this forum, watch how ya put things, even though the advice is good and sound, which yours was, Someone will put their sights on your backside and flame your tailfeathers faster than an F-16 shooting down a MIG, but at least they only use a 50 cal on here instead of a 40mm cannon. :D
 
DR4NRA said:
Riflemeister, You have just learned an important thing about this forum, watch how ya put things, even though the advice is good and sound, which yours was, Someone will put their sights on your backside and flame your tailfeathers faster than an F-16 shooting down a MIG, but at least they only use a 50 cal on here instead of a 40mm cannon. :D
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The F-16 has a 20mm ---- even the F-35 has that system.:D
 
Gunsmith?

I don't think mounting a 'scope for someone constitutes being a gunsmith with all the related legal nonsense. At least for now....besides, I've been doing same for decades, and have yet to see a black helicopter over the house. Sight-in day comments reminds me of several more things-the guys that show up in their orange, head to toe, with a HUGE knife strapped on. Another time I was on site at the range and this poor guy was there with a new rifle, scope, etc., trying to mount same, and almost in tears. All the macho types were busy belittling him, as if they had never made a mistake in their life. I went over to him and said, "Come here. Follow me." Back to my Tahoe, with a cleaning cradle, set of screwdrivers (another sure sign of being an expert), cleaning supplies, etc., mounted, bore-sighted, back to the range, worked out the details, and he ended up with a sighted in rifle. And of course the morons who sight in offhand, or don't wear ear protection since they don't in the woods, why here at the range. More macho nonsense, trying to prove something, usually to themselves. This is why I now belong to a members only club-no sight in day, none of that, and even then go there mid-week, my private 1,000 yard range, usually alone all the time I'm there. Life is good....
 
A guy..................

I must be a glutton for punishment, but I'll try one more time.

The original post stated that he was trying to assist someone who needed a scope mounted, but could not locate the parts. My concern was that he had taken the rifle into his possession to be returned when he had the scope mounted. As long as he was just helping someone work on his gun while the owner was present, there is no problem. The problem comes if he takes the gun in for repair and keeps it in his possession without the owner being present.

As a licensed gunsmith, I can work on his gun without logging it into my gunsmith log as long as he is present. If the owner leaves the gun with me for repair, it must be logged into my repair book. That is where the unlicensed could get into trouble, taking possession of a firearm without the proper record keeping being completed. Even if I am doing work for another FFL holder, I must log in every firearm that is left in my possession. The federal regs do state that you must have an FFL to do gunsmithing, but reading the rest of it , the requirement appears to be more about the proper transfer of possession than the fact you have a screwdriver in your hand.
 
Riflemeister is only trying to make a good point, the regs can and will get the unknowing into trouble very quickly. Here if I let someone handle, fire, or otherwise transfer any weapon other than a muzzleloader without seeing thier firearms certificate, (our version of the local background check, also known as a buyers card) I have just put my right to own a firearm in jeapordy, as local regs state that what I did was a felony. If for some reason something went wrong I could definately be screwed, blued and tattooed. Hell our local police chief and city council after CCW was passed, and must issue, made a DUI in 10 years, and certain other non-felony offenses not covered in federal law, a reason to confiscate your firearms, as you can no longer possess them in the city limits.

On another note, sight in days are here, I will do it again. I have done this at ranges where I am not a member, just went to check it out and send some lead down range. Why, well I feel that by helping the novice, the misinformed, and the shooting ability challenged a better sighted weapon for thier pursuit of game animals that I hunt and have great respect for. I totally despise seeing an animal suffer due to a gut shot, poor tracking and otherwise sloppy practices, or to have a first timer say that he had a great animal at a 100 yards and missed. Maybe. Plus I think its our responsibility to teach and pass on to others the very rewarding hobby of shooting and hunting in an ethical way.
 
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Riflemeister said:
I must be a glutton for punishment, but I'll try one more time.

The original post stated that he was trying to assist someone who needed a scope mounted, but could not locate the parts. My concern was that he had taken the rifle into his possession to be returned when he had the scope mounted. As long as he was just helping someone work on his gun while the owner was present, there is no problem. The problem comes if he takes the gun in for repair and keeps it in his possession without the owner being present.

<snip>
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People borrow guns all the time in this country. I even store a couple of my fathers guns during the match season so he doesn’t have to make a 40-mile trip every time we go shooting.

I believe (hope) what you’re saying is that if you start a business working on other peoples guns for a profit (not just expenses incurred) you would need to get a gunsmith ffl and tax permit to operate the “business”.

Dealing with other FED agencies in the past, it all comes down to intent.

Examples would be:
Can I borrow your rifle while I work up a load for you? If not, you can bring the rifle over when I need it and take it home with you, it wont affect the price of the "load developement" either way.
Can I borrow your rifle while I look for a scope mounting system that will work? If not, bring it over when I find the mounts so I can zero it.

Can I borrow your rifle while I bed it (for a profit above actual expense) wouldn’t fly because you need to posses the firearm to preform the service. But if the owner was willing to stand there while you bed his rifle it should be fine.
Doing a bedding job for a friend (at no charge where he only pays for the bedding compound and such) is a different storry and should be perfectly fine.

Let me know if my thinking is off on this.
 
On the application for an FFL, it asks if you intend to make a profit. If the answer is "no," then it says to not complete the application.

And this (with my underlining) from:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#i1
I. GUNSMITHS

(I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? [Back]

Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
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That sounds to me like you can legally work on someone's rifle, even keeping it overnight or for several days, if you don't do it for profit, according to Federal law.

State laws may differ.

Bruce
 
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