6PPC-USA, Higth Speed/Accuracy

Hello Keith,

I don't know if the Norma cases are softer than LAPUA, I just fireforming 10 case of LAPUA cases with 25 gr N133...

For my load with Norma cases and my 29.1 gr N133 I have occasionally à heavy bolt lift (1 time for ten shots).
I have use this load why my old lot of BERGER 68 gr FB with any problems!
The news Berger 68 gr FB are à little more thick(.0004'') than the first lot and the new seating is go more in the neck case +.007'' for the lands contact.

I'm frightened, because I thinks I have very hith pressure because a Frenchshooter friend give me this link :
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/04/evaluating-pressure-signs-in-reloaded-cartridge-brass/

The 6PPC experts can confirm my fears? Have you see the same extruding brass into the ejector hole?

About your question Keith: "Are there any benchrest shooters around Amiens?"

I don't know if there is Bench rest shooter around Amiens (I live near PARIS), but I go to the 1er may to see à Bench rest challenge to SOUPPES SUR LOING (SPRING TROPHY) it's a wonderful European French Challenge :

br_for10.jpg


Good by!
Laurent.
 

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So Drop loads..

Thank your for your help Misters!


Dusty Stevens said:
And 3 out of 10 is even softer than that.
Click to expand...
So what might explain that I have occasionally some heavy bolt lift...

I will drop my load to 28.2; 28.5 and 28.8gr de N133 to see if I don't lose accuracy because my BORDER to need speed to have a good accuracy...

A+
Laurent.
 
Busing FORSTER inside a REDDING FL Bushing "Type S"...

Hello,

I have a question, can I use my FORTER's Bushing inside a REDDING FL Bushing "Type S"( N° 77319) to resizingg my 6PPC-USA cases ?
(To day, I used a Forster Bump die 6PPC-USA to resizing my cases but a FL resizing work better for the accuracy in target...)

dscn7111.jpg


The external diameter of the Forster's Bushing is 0.490'' and the external diameter of Redding's Bushing is 0.500''...There are a great clearance for the auto-center (more .010'') in the FL Redding whit a Forster Bushing!

Respectfully.

A+
Laurent.
 
BERGEON said:
I recently buy some BERGER 65 gr BT but the seating depth with my new BERGER 65 gr BT in order to touch the land! And I was surprised because I have only .055’’ into the case neck whit this BT, certainly less than I normally use with my 68 gr FB…

I used my N133, but this powder need more neck tension ( more over .002''!) and my only solution is to increase the neck tension is to use a Bushing more tightening!

For resizing my neck cases to work with this BT, in my chamber (Reamer JGS N° 1261 6MM PPC SAKO; Neck .270'' ) I use a Bushing .261’’ to increase more neck tension for fight this little engagement in my case neck! My outside neck diameter (NORMA Case) of a loaded round (Berger 65 gr BT) is exactly .264 17’’

With my NORMA case (Factory to use "No Turn Neck!") and my chamber with .270’’ Neck , I know the clearance is to much about .006''…

Last Sunday (with wind at 100 m) I test seven loads (27.3 gr +0.3 gr to 29.1 gr N133) in my Savage “Improved” 6PPC-USA whit the BERGER 65 gr BT (Moly) +Fed GM 205M + NORMA Case…

I was very surprised because the most accurate loads is still that which develops fastest speeds!!! (29.1 gr N133 /3378 fts)

The accuracy at 100 m whit this BERGER 65 gr BT is exactly the same with the BERGER 68 gr FB/ 29.1 gr N133 (3312 fts) ???

I don’t understand because, I don’t try accuracy loads under high speed in my BORDER (24’’ length, twist 14’’) indifferently using those two bullets!!!

Please, can you explain me this strange result ?

A+
Laurent.
Click to expand...

One thing I see here, as a suggestion, with your chamber freebore and boat tail bullets you are not getting enough seating depth for V133. V133 likes a lot of neck tension and your 0.055" is not enough, IMO.

.
 
Benchrest France

Laurent
Il y a pas mal de savoir faire en matièr de Benchrest en France tu sais . Sur Facebook tu trouveras Carlos Pacheco , Louis Artaud ,Jean Pierre Troin , ou moi même , Pascal Fischbach . Selon ta région , rapproches toi d'un club avec des matches de BR . Le championnat de France aura lieu à Volmerange du 16 au 18 . Au plaisir de faire ta connaissance .
 
pascal said:
Laurent
Il y a pas mal de savoir faire en matière de Benchrest en France tu sais . Sur Facebook tu trouveras Carlos Pacheco , Louis Artaud ,Jean Pierre Troin , ou moi même , Pascal Fischbach . Selon ta région , rapproches toi d'un club avec des matches de BR . Le championnat de France aura lieu à Volmerange du 16 au 18 . Au plaisir de faire ta connaissance .
Click to expand...

Je vois que tu es sur Amiens . Je suis en Picardie aussi . Mon stand est à Cuise la Motte , près de Pierrefonds . J'habite près de Compiègne , une heure d'Amiens à tout casser . As tu un stand avec un bench au moins , idéalement en béton ?
 
BR en France...

Bonjour Pascal,

Non je ne suis pas sur Amiens mais en Région parisienne(DOURDAN 91), je te remercie pour ce contact et je tire donc à Etréchy sur une table béton(150 mm d'épaisseur) que j'ai moi même confectionné et donné a mon club, sur les plans de celle de Volmerange les mines...Pour ce qui est de rallier un club de BR je pense que le plus près ces encore Souppes sur Loing (1h15 min de chez moi).

Mais bon je débute dans la discipline mais je suis féru de rechargement de précision mais mon arme est peu atypique (avec un bon canon mais malheureusement un boitier non BR...)tu pourras en voir les détail ici :
http://www.tirmaillyforum.com/mildot/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=205750
pour l'instant j'ai réussi a faire un small de 4.38 mm mais je compte bien allez plus loin...

Au plaisir de te lire Pascal!

A+
Laurent.
 
Br

Laurent ,
Si je peux me permettre quelques conseils : achète le libre de Tony Boyer : the book of rifle accuracy . http://www.sinclairintl.com/books-v...nes/the-book-of-rifle-accuracy-prod44550.aspx

Ensuite , viens nous voir au championnat de France à Volmerange , voire même inscris toi au match de Fèrebriange 17-19 juillet : http://ami.tir.ferebrianges.free.fr tu nous y rencontreras , trouveras des conseils et peut être comme le recommande Boyer : un mentor . Pas d'état d'âme sur tes charges ou ton matos , tout le monde a commencé quelque part , et certains éléments peuvent t'être prêtés .Tu peux faire une seule des journées si tu veux . Le patron du stand est Jean-Bapt , un ami .

Enfin , appelle moi 06 75 27 89 82 , je suis là ce weekend .

Au plaisr
PF





BERGEON said:
Bonjour Pascal,

Non je ne suis pas sur Amiens mais en Région parisienne(DOURDAN 91), je te remercie pour ce contact et je tire donc à Etréchy sur une table béton(150 mm d'épaisseur) que j'ai moi même confectionné et donné a mon club, sur les plans de celle de Volmerange les mines...Pour ce qui est de rallier un club de BR je pense que le plus près ces encore Souppes sur Loing (1h15 min de chez moi).

Mais bon je débute dans la discipline mais je suis féru de rechargement de précision mais mon arme est peu atypique (avec un bon canon mais malheureusement un boitier non BR...)tu pourras en voir les détail ici :
http://www.tirmaillyforum.com/mildot/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=205750
pour l'instant j'ai réussi a faire un small de 4.38 mm mais je compte bien allez plus loin...

Au plaisir de te lire Pascal!

A+
Laurent.
Click to expand...
 
"Run Out"

Hello,

All my cartridges don't have this Run Up ! :

Dial precision : 0.01 mm (.00039'')


The Run Up on 15 cartridges is between 0 and 0.15 mm (.006'')

Is it à aceptable Run Up ?

A+
Laurent.
 
Run out and rezasing with internal Expenser Ball...

Hello,

You are agree whit me that all Bench Rest shooters resizing their cases whit FL Bushing die, without Expender ball ?

But I ask myself the question if this is the best resizing method ?

Because during my control of concentricity on à lot of 15 cartridges that the resizing with a Bushing and expender ball provides a better concentricity of cartridges measured on the tip of the bullet!!!

611.jpg


Results whit Bushing (only) resizing (1/100 mm; .00039'') :
810.jpg

Results whit Bushing + Expender Ball resizing(1/100 mm; .00039''):
olive_10.jpg



You are agree, a cardrige whit zero "Run Out" provide a best accuracy!
So why this resizing method isn't the rules in 6PPC?

Respectfully.

A+
Laurent.
 

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I have a simple rule. If it works, it is correct.

What seating die are you using? It has been my experience that a seating die cannot make up for crooked brass, but it can seat bullets to less than the full potential of the brass. Some time back, I did a little test. I seated some bullets with a Wilson seater, and some others with a Hornady seater, that has a short, loose fitting sliding sleeve. The brass was all about the same. The rounds that were assembled with the Hornady seater had twice the runout of the ones assembled with the Wilson die.

I like what you have done with the expander. It is unusual in benchrest to do that. So often shooters assume what the effect will be, instead of testing.

One thing though, It has been my experience that 133 likes more neck tension than other powders, so while you may be improving runout, you may be causing a problem in another area.

Some time back, I was testing a barrel that had been given to me. It has a non standard chamber with the result that the shoulders of fired cases are too large in diameter to fit in my Wilson seater, so I had to resort to using a threaded die that gives quite erratic runout readings, that in some cases are quite high. The bullet/chamber combination left perhaps .100" in case necks, and the flat base bullet had a sizable pressure ring. I had seated the bullets so that they were into the rifling. The net result was that it shot exceptionally well. It is not that runout does not matter, but rather that it did not in this situation because the tight chamber to case neck fit, the ability of the bullet to pivot on its pressure ring, the thin neck (.262 chamber neck) and seating into the rifling all resulted in the bullet being straightened when the round was chambered.

The whole thing made me smile because I had previously put so much effort into producing straight ammunition. I still do, but with the understanding that in some situations it does not matter much. If clearances had been larger, the bullets jumped, and necks were thicker, the result would probably have been different.
 
Hello Boyd Allen, I glad that's my interrogations have attracted your answer!

I have a simple rule. If it works, it is correct.
Yes it's right! So I like test different solutions to Work perfectly!

What seating die are you using?
I use a L.E.WILSON Seater (over size for 6PPC-USA).
I like the metrology, so I measured the neck of my Seater is .281''... for my Turn Neck round .268''(my Neck chamber is .270''!)


It has been my experience that a seating die cannot make up for crooked brass, but it can seat bullets to less than the full potential of the brass. Some time back, I did a little test. I seated some bullets with a Wilson seater, and some others with a Hornady seater, that has a short, loose fitting sliding sleeve. The brass was all about the same. The rounds that were assembled with the Hornady seater had twice the runout of the ones assembled with the Wilson die.
I do the same test (243 Win)whit my tow Seater, L.E.WILSON and a REDDING Competition...and the result of the run out is twice better whit the rounds that were assembled whit the L.E.WILSON ... WILSON work very right!

I like what you have done with the expander. It is unusual in benchrest to do that. So often shooters assume what the effect will be, instead of testing.
I just curious to make more right

One thing though, It has been my experience that 133 likes more neck tension than other powders, so while you may be improving runout, you may be causing a problem in another area.
Yes I have good result whith a neck tension to .002'' whith N133 ! And when I working with the expender ball (FL REDDING type "S" 6PPC-USA) I'm forced to use a Bushing more shall (.001'') to oblige my carbide Redding expender ball (diameter .24141'') to work well. So I have .00275'' neck tension whit expender ball

Some time back, I was testing a barrel that had been given to me. It has a non standard chamber with the result that the shoulders of fired cases are too large in diameter to fit in my Wilson seater, so I had to resort to using a threaded die that gives quite erratic runout readings, that in some cases are quite high. The bullet/chamber combination left perhaps .100" in case necks, and the flat base bullet had a sizable pressure ring. I had seated the bullets so that they were into the rifling. The net result was that it shot exceptionally well. It is not that runout does not matter, but rather that it did not in this situation because the tight chamber to case neck fit, the ability of the bullet to pivot on its pressure ring, the thin neck (.262 chamber neck) and seating into the rifling all resulted in the bullet being straightened when the round was chambered.
Conclusion : "seating the bullet into the land can improve the run up of the round whit thin neck and the accuracy in target...

The whole thing made me smile because I had previously put so much effort into producing straight ammunition. I still do, but with the understanding that in some situations it does not matter much. If clearances had been larger, the bullets jumped, and necks were thicker, the result would probably have been different.

I will test soon the accuracy whit the expender ball resizing in target but I hope is good because I have detected à little doughnut in my cases ( yet I have cut into the shoulder during the turn neck...)

Do you know if this a expender ball resizing is compatible whit à little doughnut ? (I think is not annoying because my Flat Base is at the top of the doughnut)

A+
Laurent
 
Since you have an interest in, and have achieved some good results using an expander ball, perhaps you might be interested to know that Whidden sells expanders of different sizes that fit Redding dies as well as their own.
http://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/expander-ball-kits-and-sets/
I don't know if you really need the kit, but you might be able to talk them into selling you a couple of specific sizes, or you could buy a couple that are oversized and polish them down to whatever size you want. You could also experiment with more neck tension by polishing down a Redding expander and using it with a smaller bushing.
 
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