6mm PPC

B

Badmouser

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Just bought a Remington 40x with a Hart Barrel, chambered in 6mm PPC. Got a box of 220 Laupa to fire form. If I load the cartridge normally what bullet would I use since 6mm will not yet fit? Would a smaller bullet harm the barrel?

It's probably a stupid question, but just starting out.
Thanks
 
you have to use an expander mandrel to make the neck 6mm, and most likely the rifle has a tightneck so you must also turn the necks before fireforming.

do NOT load the cases with .22 bullets and try to fire it.. it will not work !
 
If you want

Badmouser said:
Just bought a Remington 40x with a Hart Barrel, chambered in 6mm PPC. Got a box of 220 Laupa to fire form. If I load the cartridge normally what bullet would I use since 6mm will not yet fit? Would a smaller bullet harm the barrel?

It's probably a stupid question, but just starting out.
Thanks
Click to expand...

to fireform w/ 6mm bullets, then you will have to expand the neck up and neck turn and make your cases "fit" before you can pull the trigger. Another way to initially fireform your cases is with pistol powder, Cream of Wheat, and a wax plug. This will give you a case that matches your chamber, and is ready to be neck turned, without the expand iron step. If by chance you got a shot out barrel with the same chamber in it, you could even put a 22 bullet in the case and fireform that way. I would not do that with the good barrel, as the 22 will be rattling down the tube. Don't know it would be detrimental, but why take the chance. BTW, I fireform my 30 PPC cases this way, same chamber in a shot out 6MM, stuff a cheap 22 bullet on top of a case full of Red Dot and I end up with a 90% fireformed case. And b-4 anyone starts screaming, think about it. The ONLY time of pressure internally in this setup is the micro-seconds the bullet is leaving the case. Once the bullet is escaped, there is NO seal and pressure ceases.
 
dansig said:
you have to use an expander mandrel to make the neck 6mm, and most likely the rifle has a tightneck so you must also turn the necks before fireforming.

do NOT load the cases with .22 bullets and try to fire it.. it will not work !
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. I've fireformed my cases using 22 cal bullets for years, and it works. Simply load the cases with powder you would normally use, seat a cheap 22 cal bullet and shoot it. You then expand the cases and neck turn as desired. You could take it a step further and pre-turn your cases to the correct neck wall thickness + 1 thou, fireform, expand with expnder die and finally neck turn the last thou. Reason I do it this way is I prefer minimum expanding with the expander die.
 
Just one thing to remember if you shoot a 22 bullet in a 6mm barrel to fireform, USE A BACKSTOP THAT IS CLOSE! You won't be able to hit a target at 25 yards and you don't want bullets flying all over.

Jeff Aberegg
 
I learned about fire forming 6PPC brass with .22 caliber bullets from James Mock, and I have formed quite a few cases that way. The comment about the back stop is correct. I do a variation on what others have described. Since I am set up to turn .22 caliber necks as well as 6mm and other calibers, and have multiple turners, so that I can leave one set for my PPC brass, I expand and turn to .010 thick, at .22 caliber, this gives the case more room to expand in a .262 chamber. Since you have not mentioned your chamber neck dimension, it may be that it is larger, and that there is no advantage to this for you. Anyway, by minimizing the expanding that I have to do for the final turning (I do want some.) I find that my cases are very straight, after their final turning. Another tip is to use cheap .22 BT bullets, since they seat very well using a 6PPC seater. I have used the cheapest, 55 gr BTs that I can find, and fill the case to the base of the bullet, with any powder that will work with the normal range of bullet weights in a 6PPC.
 
Nothing wrong with fireforming with 22 bullets. I fireform without bullets. I use Bullseye and and a wax plug. I only have to expand very little and turn.
 
Badmouser said:
Just bought a Remington 40x with a Hart Barrel, chambered in 6mm PPC. Got a box of 220 Laupa to fire form. If I load the cartridge normally what bullet would I use since 6mm will not yet fit? Would a smaller bullet harm the barrel? It's probably a stupid question, but just starting out. Thanks
Click to expand...

Before rattling 22 caliber bullets down an old 6PPC dedicated fire forming barrel, try this first:

Find a local mentor that will walk you through the basics and fundamentals of traditional 6PPC brass preparation and then the fire forming process including the tools you're going to need to do all this, before venturing into the variants offered by the learned gentlemen above. Someone who can cover all the little things you may not thought of [like the outside lubing of cases prior to fire forming, etc; etc; etc;].

In the absence of someone local and/or in addition to, I highly recommend Tony Boyer's bible on the 6PPC, including competing it, available here: http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BSS&Product_Code=TBSC

If you're really itching to shoot your new rifle you can get fully prepared brass for the 6PPC here: http://www.benchrest.com/hoehn/ Ron can help you with the specifics. Good Luck! :)
 
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It sounds like you want to shoot the barrel that's on the rifle. No matter what, you *must* know the neck diameter of the chamber. Else, you don't know what diameter to turn the necks to. Chances are that it is NOT a no-turn neck.
 
Before rattling 22 caliber bullets down an old 6PPC dedicated fire forming barrel, try this first:

Find a local mentor that will walk you through the basics and fundamentals of traditional 6PPC brass preparation and then the fire forming process including the tools you're going to need to do all this, before venturing into the variants offered by the learned gentlemen above. Someone who can cover all the little things you may not thought of [like the outside lubing of cases prior to fire forming, etc; etc; etc;].

+1 ,Good advice from abintx
 
I have not seen anyone mention the easy route to take. Buy some Norma 6MM PPC (USA) brass. Turn to the correct neck size. load and shoot. No fire forming required. I just recently got my first 6MM PPC, been shooting 6MM BR's for years, and I got some of the Norma Brass and I seen no problems with it. I am using it in a Panda with a .262 neck. Only had to turn the neck and work up a load. Using LT-32 it shoots far better than I can. Now if I could only learn how to read the wind correctly I might be a threat to the others at Camillus.

Ed
 
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ehkempf said:
I have not seen anyone mention the easy route to take. Buy some Norma 6MM PPC (USA) brass. Turn to the correct neck size. Ed
Click to expand...

Mentioned above: get fully prepared brass for the 6PPC here: http://www.benchrest.com/hoehn/ Ron can help you with the specifics.

Ron does the turning too. If you take this route, be prepared to provide chamber dimensions. :)
 
The only problem with

ehkempf said:
I have not seen anyone mention the easy route to take. Buy some Norma 6MM PPC (USA) brass. Turn to the correct neck size. load and shoot. No fire forming required. I just recently got my first 6MM PPC, been shooting 6MM BR's for years, and I got some of the Norma Brass and I seen no problems with it. I am using it in a Panda with a .262 neck. Only had to turn the neck and work up a load. Using LT-32 it shoots far better than I can. Now if I could only learn how to read the wind correctly I might be a threat to the others at Camillus.

Ed
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what you are describing is you assume a USA chamber. The 6 PPC USA chamber is considerably bigger than virtually all the various benchrest 6PPC chambers. That is so the benchrest cartridges we use in competition cannot be shot in a factory rifle and the factory USA rounds will NOT fit in our benchrest rifles.. That is the one MAJOR issue that must be determined by the original poster, what chamber does he have?
 
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buy the norma brass and try it out. if they dont fit your chamber i will buy the rest of them from you. let me know. lee
 
David Halblom said:
what you are describing is you assume a USA chamber. The 6 PPC USA chamber is considerably bigger than virtually all the various benchrest 6PPC chambers. That is so the benchrest cartridges we use in competition cannot be shot in a factory rifle and the factory USA rounds will NOT fit in our benchrest rifles.. That is the one MAJOR issue that must be determined by the original poster, what chamber does he have?
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David,

The Norma Brass may say 6MM PPC USA on the headstamp, but like I said I have (now two) 6 PPC's and they are both tight neck .262's. One of the 6 PPC's use to belong to Jack Neary. You may want to see this video by Lou Murdica, who recommended the Norma Brass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAFleA_mQv8

I have found the brass to work excellent as have many of the fellow benchrest guys I shoot with at Camillus.

Ed
 
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David Halblom said:
what you are describing is you assume a USA chamber. The 6 PPC USA chamber is considerably bigger than virtually all the various benchrest 6PPC chambers. That is so the benchrest cartridges we use in competition cannot be shot in a factory rifle
Click to expand...

Uh, David, that doesn't make sense. A slightly smaller round will fit in a slightly larger chamber & can usually be fired.

That said, the older Norma 6PPC brass measured around .436 or .437 at the head; Lapua .220 Russian is closer to .4385. The sizing die will take care f any other issues, except chamber length. Usual with "Benchrest" 6PPC reamers is about 1.520. That, I suppose, so the .220 case would fit to fireform. The cases shortened up to a bit less than 1.51 when fireformed -- 1.500 not uncommon.

I have no idea what chamber depth the 6PPC USA reamers cut, maybe less. But I've used the USA-stamped Norma cases in my small-chamber PPC. With the old AA 2017-BR powder (circa 1996), they shot very well with the lower pressures that powder liked.

FWIW
 
Badmouser said:
Just bought a Remington 40x with a Hart Barrel, chambered in 6mm PPC. Got a box of 220 Laupa to fire form. If I load the cartridge normally what bullet would I use since 6mm will not yet fit? Would a smaller bullet harm the barrel?

It's probably a stupid question, but just starting out.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Please, please, please do not make assumptions about the neck in that chamber. You could get into a very dangerous situation really quickly. There are both neck diameter and neck length questions.

For example, even if you get the diameter right but push a benchrest pressure round with a generous length neck into a short necked chamber, you will get an over pressure situation.

Better safe than sorry: Get a gunsmith to make a chamber cast of the chamber.
 
SGJennings said:
Please, please, please do not make assumptions about the neck in that chamber. You could get into a very dangerous situation really quickly. There are both neck diameter and neck length questions.

For example, even if you get the diameter right but push a benchrest pressure round with a generous length neck into a short necked chamber, you will get an over pressure situation.

Better safe than sorry: Get a gunsmith to make a chamber cast of the chamber.
Click to expand...


This is the best advice on determining chamber dimensions. You can do it yourself. I use a product called "Cerrosafe". to make a chamber cast. Brownells carry it. What you end up with is an exact copy of your Chamber.

Takes the guess out of trim length and neck diameter.



Glenn
 
Sorry Charles,

Charles E said:
Uh, David, that doesn't make sense. A slightly smaller round will fit in a slightly larger chamber & can usually be fired.

That said, the older Norma 6PPC brass measured around .436 or .437 at the head; Lapua .220 Russian is closer to .4385. The sizing die will take care f any other issues, except chamber length. Usual with "Benchrest" 6PPC reamers is about 1.520. That, I suppose, so the .220 case would fit to fireform. The cases shortened up to a bit less than 1.51 when fireformed -- 1.500 not uncommon.

I have no idea what chamber depth the 6PPC USA reamers cut, maybe less. But I've used the USA-stamped Norma cases in my small-chamber PPC. With the old AA 2017-BR powder (circa 1996), they shot very well with the lower pressures that powder liked.

FWIW
Click to expand...

I got the dimension A##-backwards. But the principle is the same. A USA chamber and a typical br chamber are not one and the same. And we/he has no idea what chamber is in the rifle he is asking about. He needs to proceed w/ caution and make NO ass-umptions.
 
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