O
Oldbikeman48
Guest
Looking for some load help
Anyone running 115 bullets
Anyone running 115 bullets
Be more specific
There are a lot of 6mm Ackley's. I would assume 06 case, but Ackley used 30 Krag, 30-30, 30-06, 308, belted magnums, and others parent cases. If it is a 6mm-06 Ackley Imp. try 58gr of H4831 behind a 85gr bullet and work up. For a 100gr bullet, start 2 to 3 gr. lower and work up.
Michael
There are a lot of 6mm Ackley's. I would assume 06 case, but Ackley used 30 Krag, 30-30, 30-06, 308, belted magnums, and others parent cases. If it is a 6mm-06 Ackley Imp. try 58gr of H4831 behind a 85gr bullet and work up. For a 100gr bullet, start 2 to 3 gr. lower and work up.
Michael
C
CMaier
Guest
adamsgt
Jerry Adams
And your simple response would be?
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Oldbikeman48
Guest
It's a 6mm remington ackley improved
Sierra has 6 Rem Ackley data for their 107 HPBT Match bullet. I would call their tech line and ask how much you should back the charges off for the extra weight of the 115. They list 6 different powders that should give you a good starting point. I'd also pre-measure the bearing surface length of the bullet you are going to use before you call so that they can compare to the 107.
I'm going to say this once.......please read it twice
or three times.
I'm going to support Wilbur's rules re reloading, listing loads.
Wilbur disallows "reloading info" on this site for a very good reason.
It's dangerous.
Now, this is where folks need to READ AND UNDERSTAND!
This isn't "directed" at oldbikeman, it's just a place and a time for an explanation regarding SAFE reloading practice.
EVERYBODY wants to know the "MAX" for whatever it is they're reloading......EVERYBODY!
In simple fact, everybody NEEDS to know this if they're going to reload.
Regardless what some book says, "reloading manuals" are guidelines. The "Max Load" listed in a manual is written with this caveat "this was max for this testing gun, this barrel length, etc,tec,tec"..... it's a GUIDELINE. I've been reloading and around reloaders for 40yrs and if I had a nickel for every time somebody said "I found this load in a '66 Sierra manual, IT'S HOT, they can't publish it today" or "I kept buying manuals until I found a lot hot enough for me" or some variant thereof.....I'd have lots of nickels.
I've experienced a number of cases where FACTORY loadings have caused pressure problems in factory rifles.
AND...... This is HUGE........ there are currently posts on this and every other discussion board on the planet where some ill-informed "reloader" is axing the e'tarnal question of "How Come My Gun Is Showing Pressure Signs And My Load Isn't Even NEAR Max???"
Now before every self-righteous nay-sayer on the innertube jumps in and screeches something along the lines of "I don't EVER go to the max, I reload CAREFULLY and never push the boundaries. I'm CAUTIOUS and don't even CARE about speed".........
I'm calling BS
Pure Bull Puckey.
You don't "Improve" a cartridge in an effort to drop pressure and make it safer.
Nor do you start low in the "reloading Manual" and work up to about half-way and STOP, saying "Ohhh, this is nice. I'll just stay right here. I've found what I want
"AND EVEN IF YOU DID, IT'S ALL IRRELEVANT!!!! Some guns will pressure out 'wayyy below some suggested "Max Load" in a manual.
TRYING to be safe and BEING safe are two completely different things! Don't get me started on how many people I know who've wrecked their hotrods because they don't even know they're out of their depth. How many accidents I've seen that were directly the result of people doing things THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND.
Wilbur knows perfectly well that every gun, every barrel, every combination EVERY DAY is different. And his policy here is, "No Reloading Data Allowed"
But I'm going to take it a different way.
I'm going to explain for the whole world to see, how to SAFELY find your max load for your rifle. The way the powder/bullet/component companies do it. This works EVERY TIME for EVERY RIFLE.
everywhere
And it doesn't go out of date.
There are TWO pressure signs that one needs to know about when you're working up a powder charge. All other pressure signs are "indicators of a problem" but in many cases the other pressure signs are indicators of something other than too much powder. There are a dozen "signs" of pressure excursion but many of them are masked, mimicked or specific to certain platforms.
These TWO are relevant to 90% of all bolt-actioned rifles. And ONE of them is simply universal.
TWO useful indicators as follows;
#1- Casehead Expansion. Absolutely universal. This is solid REGARDLESS what some other person or some book says.
#2- Brass Extrusion. So-called "ejector marks" or shiny spots or smears on the casehead. This pertains to most bolt-actioned rifles.
Of these two, the only INFALLIBLE one is casehead expansion. And casehead expansion ain't tricky. First rule, You don't measure NUTTIN'! "Measuring" is useless except for purpose of exploration or understanding. Measuring IS UNSAFE as used to find max loads. Very few people are capable of repeatably measuring anything and secondly, the "measurements" are both time-consuming and subject to large error. You don't measure ANYTING, you gage it.
Gauging WORKS...measuring works sometimes.
So... to find the maximum charge for your combination you GAGE casehead expansion. To find your maximum load you wreck some cases.
period.
End Of Story.
There is NO OTHER WAY.
But this way works, every time and without fail.
And you gauge casehead expansion by monitoring your primer pocket expansion. It really is that simple. Arguably the BEST way is thru the use of a hand-held priming tool, but any priming method that gives you 'feel' is acceptable, and barring that you just reload until your primers can be easily pushed out with a pick, tapped out on the table or they leak gas upon firing. Leaking is a last resort because when your primers leak IT DOES damage your rifle.
To find the maximum load for ANYTHING you simply load and shoot the same 5 cases until the primers get loose. And then you throw those cases away. (or load them using cigarette paper or nail polish for one last fling at a varmint and THEN throw them away...)
Repeat...THROW THEM AWAY!!!!...They're trashed, these cases are TRASH, but they may have saved your eyeballs and this is a tiny price to pay for absolute peace of mind. For the CERTAINTY that YOUR maximum has been achieved BY YOU.
But in any case, YOUR rifle, YOUR lot of powder, YOUR bullet, YOUR cases, YOUR combination of stuff will pressure out at a given threshhold. Your job is to find this point......SAFELY.....and then back off a ways. Back off a long way if you so choose but BACK OFF...regardless what some bozo on the innernet said, or what some manual said.
Depending on your setup you may choose to stop before reaching casehead expansion. You may see brass extrusion into the ejector/extractor cut/BF before ever expanding you caseheads. And that's fine, this is method #2 and it's also an acceptable MAX because it is wrecking your brass. But in any event, casehead expansion and brass extrusion will always tell you where maximum loading pressure is.
NOTHING ELSE CAN!!
And there are loads being listed on every site but this one that will cause pressure excursions in someone's rifle.
Which is why I fully support Wilbur's stance re reloading data
rant OFF
al
I wish it were so simple!
While this is true, and a great reason for Ackleyfying, the simple fact is that nearly everyone still trims their cases. Ackleying alone won't get rid of the need of many to trim cases. Improving combined with properly set up FITTED resizing dies is the whole answer......and in many cases the 40* shoulder makes adequate resizing impossible so sometimes a 35* shoulder is better.
IME at least as many guys go to the Ackley for velocity as do for caselife, and only a vanishing FEW ever achieve any caselife improvement at all.
On the subject of trimming cases.....and understanding WHY some trim cases......I ask this question.
"If the reloader person is trimming cases, WHERE IS THE BRASS COMING FROM???"
There is only one correct answer.
It comes from the junction of the web to the body of the case
always.
O
Oldbikeman48
Guest
Thanks for the input. I'm not looking for specific loads more has anyone been I swing 115 gr bulletsI wish it were so simple!
While this is true, and a great reason for Ackleyfying, the simple fact is that nearly everyone still trims their cases. Ackleying alone won't get rid of the need of many to trim cases. Improving combined with properly set up FITTED resizing dies is the whole answer......and in many cases the 40* shoulder makes adequate resizing impossible so sometimes a 35* shoulder is better.
IME at least as many guys go to the Ackley for velocity as do for caselife, and only a vanishing FEW ever achieve any caselife improvement at all.
On the subject of trimming cases.....and understanding WHY some trim cases......I ask this question.
"If the reloader person is trimming cases, WHERE IS THE BRASS COMING FROM???"
There is only one correct answer.
It comes from the junction of the web to the body of the case
always.
I've poked a couple thousand Berger 115's thru the paper and (OPINION ALERT!!) it has been my thought that the only way I could get them to really shoot consistently was to set the throat up specifically for the 115's......and that's a secret I don't know. I've only fired them thru 1.3 to 1.5 degree leades with various freebores. I've leaked 'em, blown 'em up outright, got the fliers down to maybe one in 20??? But I, myself have never gotten the 115's to drill holes. I used them once in a 600yd NBRSA event and had a couple blowouts so switched back to 105-108's and have always told myself that if we ever get some 1K events within a 4hr drive I'll try them again. The BC is ridiculous
I "feel" that the ones I've used are, "delicate?," "not robust?".......... when I quit using them my notes indicate a "velocity ceiling" of around 2900 I've pushed them with maybe a dozen barrels in .243AI, 6BR and 6X47L and haven't fired one in 6-7yrs so all mine are all from prior generations. I've also fired a few of Tubb's (D-Tacs?) with the same results.
Sorry to be of no help, am just stating that I have used them. I've pushed them up to 3150 or so and felt that they got ragged past 2900fps. (Which BTW is probably a decent window for a 6MM Rem Ackley.....2750-2900? I'm guessing here)
O
Oldbikeman48
Guest
I've poked a couple thousand Berger 115's thru the paper and (OPINION ALERT!!) it has been my thought that the only way I could get them to really shoot consistently was to set the throat up specifically for the 115's......and that's a secret I don't know. I've only fired them thru 1.3 to 1.5 degree leades with various freebores. I've leaked 'em, blown 'em up outright, got the fliers down to maybe one in 20??? But I, myself have never gotten the 115's to drill holes. I used them once in a 600yd NBRSA event and had a couple blowouts so switched back to 105-108's and have always told myself that if we ever get some 1K events within a 4hr drive I'll try them again. The BC is ridiculous
I've pushed them with maybe a dozen barrels in .243AI, 6BR and 6X47L and haven't fired one in 6-7yrs so all mine are all from prior generations. I've also fired a few of Tubb's (D-Tacs?) with the same results.
Sorry to be of no help, am just stating that I have used them. I've pushed them up to 3150 or so and felt that they got ragged past 2900fps. (Which BTW is probably a decent window for a 6MM Rem Ackley.....2750-2900? I'm guessing here)
Thanks for your input