mwezell
Mike Ezell
That's a whole 'nother topic, but your logic leaves me speechless. That doesn't happen often.
6.5mm Grendel – Neck Me Up, Neck Me Down
- Thread starter SmallBoreBuyer
- Start date
That's a whole 'nother topic, but your logic leaves me speechless. That doesn't happen often.
josh shrum
New member
So do I!
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josh shrum
New member
On a separate but more "on topic" note in regards to the OP and the thread, I will be hauling a 6 barrel around with me this year. Why? Because there were a LOT of instances last year where some of the top score shooters would say something to the effect of "Whoever can stay clean today is going to win". By the end of that day very few, if any, of us had stayed clean. The Bud and the 200/300 nationals at Orangeburg are good examples of this. An even better example is the 100/200 meter shoot at Ashe County. Both events had challenging conditions where none of the shooters were able to stay clean for the entire event.
I am absolutely in love with the 30BR. If the conditions at a match get crappy, you can bet I will be spinning that 30 barrel off and swapping to a 6. By that same token, if conditions stay good, that 30 barrel will be getting a full workout.
If I have to make a smaller hole in the paper in order to stay in the 10 ring in bad conditions then that is what I will do. I am more interested in winning than in X count.
TLDR:
I plan to keep a 6 barrel in my back pocket in case conditions go to hell.
Thanks,
Josh
I am absolutely in love with the 30BR. If the conditions at a match get crappy, you can bet I will be spinning that 30 barrel off and swapping to a 6. By that same token, if conditions stay good, that 30 barrel will be getting a full workout.
If I have to make a smaller hole in the paper in order to stay in the 10 ring in bad conditions then that is what I will do. I am more interested in winning than in X count.
TLDR:
I plan to keep a 6 barrel in my back pocket in case conditions go to hell.
Thanks,
Josh
jackie schmidt
New member
That's the way the game is played, and every shooter knows that when they sit down at the Bench.
I have to ask. Do you shoot 100-200-300 VFS on the NBRSA or IBS Format?
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J
Jim Pag
Guest
Josh if you had a 6 at Ashe County when we were both there at 200 meters, I doubt it would of made a bit of difference the way the wind was blowing especially the last 2 matches.
josh shrum
New member
That wind was wild! I still don't know how Hilary shot a 50-3 in match 5. I dropped a point in match 5 because I got caught in a let up, the shot never pushed into the 10 ring, and I thought for sure I wasn't going to be able to hold onto the win at 200m with those conditions. Would a 6 with half the push and subsequently half the hold have kept me in the 10? I plan to find out this year (unless mother nature decides to bless our score matches with incredible conditions...)
Josh
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Jim Pag
Guest
That wind was wild! I still don't know how Hilary shot a 50-3 in match 5. I dropped a point in match 5 because I got caught in a let up, the shot never pushed into the 10 ring, and I thought for sure I wasn't going to be able to hold onto the win at 200m with those conditions. Would a 6 with half the push and subsequently half the hold have kept me in the 10? I plan to find out this year (unless mother nature decides to bless our score matches with incredible conditions...)
Josh
Well I made a big mistake after the 3rd match was over. I was down 2 points and I basically gave up and went on to fireforming brass the last 2 matches. Jarvais always told me never give up because there will likely be other people dropping points also. Should of listened to him. I had a 1000 mile trip back home to beat myself up on that one.
J
Jim Pag
Guest
Harley Baker finished 1st at 300 yards with his 6PPC at the 2015 Bud Pryor, but he only came in 24th out of 39 shooters at 100, and 32nd out of 36 at 200, and ended up 12th in the grand agg. Everything just came together for him that Sunday and it was just his day.
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R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
That wind was wild! I still don't know how Hilary shot a 50-3 in match 5. I dropped a point in match 5 because I got caught in a let up, the shot never pushed into the 10 ring, and I thought for sure I wasn't going to be able to hold onto the win at 200m with those conditions. Would a 6 with half the push and subsequently half the hold have kept me in the 10? I plan to find out this year (unless mother nature decides to bless our score matches with incredible conditions...)
Josh
Josh, "Been there, done that, got the artificial wood . . . !"
But did it with a .25x47 Lapua & Hunter Rifle, during the 2013 & 2014 seasons, using .53BC, 110 Gr. BT bullets - even won a pair of 200s & a Grand Agg at those years NBRSA Score National Championships. That [Bartlein] barrel/bullet combo did well for both seasons - but, when I was hot, it wasn't due to BC - the barrel was great - I simply made good decisions and executed. The greater share of the time, win/place/last, I just shot better nines than my neighbors . . . never could convince a scorekeeper that my [oh so close] nines were "better" than the wide ones! What I learned: edges are cruel; they only work for the winner, who, at least on that day, probably doesn't need an edge. RG
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Jim Pag
Guest
Yes he did, but he never won a single yardage, which didn't matter in the end because he was the only one to stay clean all weekend. He came in 18th at 100, 6th at 2, and 4th at3.
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jackie schmidt
New member
Josh, "Been there, done that, got the artificial wood . . . !"
Randy, these are true words for us that shoot a LOT of Score.
I have seen days where the wind was howling, and I stayed clean in the Grand Agg with only 25 X's, and won. Then there are others where I dropped points by 1/32 inch at 200, had a 33+ X count, and didn't even place. Great shooting Rifle, bad shooting.
I look at every score match as a new day, and new challenge. You shoot against what is there that day. I know my 30BR is the best thing to shoot at 100-200 on any given day, it's not it's fault that I am on two lines of hold and fail to see the tails all drop when I touch the trigger. That's the old,........"damn, it went right where I was holding" thing.
But that being said, I might shoot my new HV 6BR 1-8 twist at 300 this week end at Walker County. It shoots quite well, and we have been having a lot of wind just about every day, even in the early mornings.
You know me, if it did not possess the "precision" to compete, I wouldn't even consider it, because you and I think a like in that it is hard to beat a great agging Rifle.
And for all of those that know a lot about the subject but don't actually compete, if you are on two lines of hold, and fail to see the tails drop, all of the BC in the works isn't going to make a bit of difference.
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R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
Jackie, please check your e-mail.
Regarding BC - especially in a game where sighter-shots are allowed (point-blank BR!
), I consider it highly over-rated: even at longer ranges, it's still over-rated; once you're sighted-in, the monkey is on the shooters back, not the bullet.BC is much more useful/important in a game requiring first-shot hits, at unknown distances - and then, the relative size of the target/bull comes into play. The big mistake people make is comparing wind-drift in 5, or, 10 MPH segments - try making either of those errors in a BR event and see what that earns ya . . ooops, U know what I mean!
The correct comparison, is to divide the 10MPH drift by ten - then, we're close to a winning dope day!
In a point-blank score event, 1.25 MPH dope error shoots U a BIG fat 9!
Even at "long range", our bullets do not know their BCs, they only know when they're shot, relative the the others in the sierries - even in a 15 MPH wind, a 1.25 MPH velocity/vector change won't affect the group size as much as lack of precision . . much of this is, as my Dad used to advise, " is lost in the noise". Regardless the BR discipline, the winner just isn't making any mistakes. RG
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Jackie, please check your e-mail.
Regarding BC - especially in a game where sighter-shots are allowed (point-blank BR!
BC is much more useful/important in a game requiring first-shot hits, at unknown distances - and then, the relative size of the target/bull comes into play. The big mistake people make is comparing wind-drift in 5, or, 10 MPH segments - try making either of those errors in a BR event and see what that earns ya . . ooops, U know what I mean!
The correct comparison, is to divide the 10MPH drift by ten - then, we're close to a winning dope day!
In a point-blank score event, 1.25 MPH dope error shoots U a BIG fat 9!
Randy, BC is wind drift also ...... Full value, half value, quarter value and eight value is fairly common knowledge to a long range shooter..... jim
R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
Jackie, please check your e-mail.
Regarding BC - especially in a game where sighter-shots are allowed (point-blank BR!
BC is much more useful/important in a game requiring first-shot hits, at unknown distances - and then, the relative size of the target/bull comes into play. The big mistake people make is comparing wind-drift in 5, or, 10 MPH segments - try making either of those errors in a BR event and see what that earns ya . . ooops, U know what I mean!
The correct comparison, is to divide the 10MPH drift by ten - then, we're close to a winning dope day!
In a point-blank score event, 1.25 MPH dope error shoots U a BIG fat 9!
Randy, BC is wind drift also ...... Full value, half value, quarter value and eight value is fairly common knowledge to a long range shooter..... jim
No disagreement here. Wind drift is simply incremental - not magic. The NBRSA/IBS 200 & 300 Yd., score targets are not incremental enough to fully capitalize on the advantage.
Now, the original NBRSA targets, prior to the change to the current, "easy" target (I believe pre1987), may have rewarded the extra BC: it certainly rewarded better wind-doping!
The sole negative aspect being, that, "back in the day", winners frequently won by several points - and people didn't like being , "shown-up", or, beaten like rented mules. So, over night, a "beggar, manly, or, whatever", 8, became a 9!
I'm not going to beat this dead horse, just point out, that as Jackie stated, "I look at every score match as a new day, and new challenge. You shoot against what is there that day. I know my 30BR is the best thing to shoot at 100-200 on any given day, it's not it's fault that I am on two lines of hold and fail to see the tails all drop when I touch the trigger. That's the old,........"damn, it went right where I was holding" thing." The original target rewarded better doping and execution, and produced separation - I like that concept . . . but, I was/am part of the vast minority.
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