40x Vs. Cooper

Hi
You might not be aware of it BUT
A company named JARD makes a trigger for a Cooper amoung other.
I have one on my Cooper TRP-3 and consider it every bit as good as a Jewel.
They can be had at 2oz
Tom R

QUOTE=axlenut;433230]My 40X is a single shot, as is my Cooper, but the Remington has a better trigger. Moreover, my other Remington an old (about 40 years old, on its fourth barrel) M-700 repeater has a Jewel Varmint trigger. With the Remington you have a lot of choice for upgrades and accessories. There are no aftermarket triggers for the Cooper and you will need some tinkering to get a lighter pull. The Cooper isn't that bad, but it takes some trigger discipline to shoot, especially for me with nerve damage in my hands.

My Remington repeater has a laminated thumb hole pillar bedded stock I made up - very few stock makers offer Cooper inlets. There are so many Remington parts available you can go catalog happy deciding what you want. I've gone through a lot of Remingtons and they all worked well.

The old Remington 700, all tricked out in .257 Roberts Ackley will shoot .25" all day, 10 shots at 100 yards (when my brain is working). The 40X is still at Pac-Nor begin rebarreled. When it was new it would shoot similarly. Either rifle will shoot, the Remington is just more flexible.

VarmintGuy proves my old adage: "You can never have too many 40X's or ground squirrels."[/QUOTE]
 
Axel Nut

No, your old Rem 700 in 257 Ackley Improved will not shoot 1/4 inch 10 shot groups all day long. It will not shoot five 5-shot 1/4 inch groups in a row. In fact, it probably will not shoot two 1/4 inch 5-shot groups in a row.
This is Benchrest.com. Ludicrous statements like that might go over big on "bangaway.com", but the vast majority of the shooters who frequent this site know that making such a statement shows an ignorance of extreme accuracy and what it takes to achieve such performance,......jackie
 
Varmint Guy

It's not arrogance. It is the simple fact. Of course, in discussions such as this, facts are usually the first casualty.
Anyone that believes that his .257 Ackley Improved will shoot 10 shot 1/4 inch groups "all day long", are as ignorant as "axelnut" concerning the concept of what it takes to achieve such performance.......jackie
 
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Any22 said:
Well I did shoot the 40 x Its everythin I Could ask for , I have to admit that it has More throat wear than I would like But STILL shoots a ragged hole, My best group w/ varmint loads was Low 3s I can live w/ that. Later on I may try setting it back , Ive never done this So Im askin Set back or new bbl. ? How would yall do it. Im not in a hurry But Will do sumthin 1 of these days
Click to expand...

I’d shoot it the way it is until it throws so many shots you cant stand it anymore, then buy a new barrel.
 
Another Misconception

In this thread, a shooter touted the attributes of a 40x as opposed to a regular Rem 700. Let's look at the facts. Facts not based on what the big glossy add says, but facts based on actually taking criticle measurements of each, and comparing.

About 7 years ago, I had a 40X action robbed off of a 25-06 Rangemaster. I also had a nice 700 from a BDL, it had the jewelled bolt and high gloss blue finish.

Since I was building a custom from each, (the 700 was going to be a HBR Rifle), I decided to true each action as needed.

After taking criticle measurements, this is what I came up with. The bolt to action clearance was identicle. The 40X was making contact only on one lug, the 700 was making good contact on one, about 10 percent on the other.
When setting up both actions for complete truing, it was found that both were equally bad, threads not running true with bolt way, and the action face showing considerable runnout on both. Both had firing pin holes with considerable cleareance. Both had recoil luggs that showed differences in the recoil lugg thickness when measured around.

About the only difference I could find in the two actions was the 700 had a magazine cut-away, and one had 40x stamped on it, and the other Rem700. The 700 actually had a better blue job

I did not have the barrel off of the 700, but the barrel off of the 40X, (stainless), appeared to be a buttoned rifled barrel. I sold it for about $30.

Those of you who think that you are getting a more "precision" action with a 40X out of the "custom shop" are just fooling yourself. In my opinion, based on actual measurements, there is no difference what so ever in the criticle tolerances of a 40X and a 700.

That is not to say that a 40X is not a fine Rifle. It is just an overpriced Rifle.
But, as with many things, preception often dictates worth. It is a lot like the current buying craze on American Muscle Cars of the 60's and early '70's. For those of us who know, these things were nothing more than cheap low end cars that Factories, (or after market entities such as Yenko), placed big motors in. Most handled poorly, had bad brakes, poor steering, and were never as fast and quick as everybody thought.

But that does not keep 'investors" from paying as much as $1,000,000 for one at one of those stupid auctions. Most of us are pissed off because we all had one, or more at one time, and say, "man, if I just had not sold that thing for $500 back in '73.

There is no doubt that there is a huge following that surrounds the 40X, and the Cooper. For those of us who are heavilly involved in extreme accuracy, this is somewhat perplexing, because you can just buy a Savage in 223 or 308 that will probably out shoot either. Or, buy a used Remington, Savage, or what ever, invest about $500-$600 in a custom barrel and some trueing work, and have a Rifle that will out shoot either as well.

Many times in this thread, the term "value" has been throwed around, meaning cost. You would rather have a bad shooting 40X that was 'originol" so as to hold it's value, than a butchered up one that would shoot lights out, but be poo-pooed on at selling time because it was not originol.

It is like the car guys. "originol', but bad", trumps "modified, but good'.

It is sad that we live in a world where so many know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing........jackie
 
Good post Jackie...

...a vssf or sendero model is much better money spent than a 40x centerfire when paying for the Remmy name. I'm not sure where the 40x barrels come from but I suspected that was the only real difference. I have shot several 40x centerfire guns and all were pretty darn accurate (all short action varmint cals) I have heard several gunsmiths tell me they see the same thing you have when truing a 700 & 40x action.

Almost every 40x rimfire I have played with has been a winner. Sporters and Targets.

pf
<><
 
Do we really need 1/4 MOA

I shoot a 700 in 6x284 that also has a bunch @#$%^&*()_ It will every now and then shoot 1/4 inch groups. When I'm in the field on a Coyote stand using shooting sticks it will never produce 1/4 MOA but I still manage to send coyotes into eternity. There are so many factors involved in getting those tiny groups. One day my rifle shoots great next day with same load it doesn't match the previous day.If I miss a varmint in the field with either of my rifles its not the rifles fault.I love my Cooper and my Remington also my M70 and AR-15 . Try and hold the rifle the same and squeeze that trigger and see the red mist fly.
 
I have never seen a critter...

Worker said:
I shoot a 700 in 6x284 that also has a bunch @#$%^&*()_ It will every now and then shoot 1/4 inch groups. When I'm in the field on a Coyote stand using shooting sticks it will never produce 1/4 MOA but I still manage to send coyotes into eternity. There are so many factors involved in getting those tiny groups. One day my rifle shoots great next day with same load it doesn't match the previous day.If I miss a varmint in the field with either of my rifles its not the rifles fault.I love my Cooper and my Remington also my M70 and AR-15 . Try and hold the rifle the same and squeeze that trigger and see the red mist fly.
Click to expand...

...that could tell the difference in a 1/4" gun and 1/2" gun. Results have always been the same. Heck, I have a 1" gun that kills as dead as my 1/4" 6BR.

You start talking 1/4" & 1/2" "all day long", you better be able to back it up, know other br shooters and have wind flags when you show up to talk smack. Those guys usually have a 3 shot group in their wallet from their 30-06.

pf
<><
 
The only bonus to a 40x [ or a Savage single shot ] is the solid bottom receiver. There is nothing nicer looking than that big unbroken expanse of bedding in your stock. I drilled and tapped the 'front trigger guard screw' hole to 1/4-28 and use it as the rear action screw. I float the tang like you would a Savage. With a 700 there is not enough meat left to drill and tap that hole.
 
To the doubters and B.S. detectors:

Remember, I said it (the Remington 700 not the 40X) would shoot .250" all day under the correct conditions, if I could take advantage of its inherent accuracy. One of you folks could probably shoot it to its full potential much more consistently than I.

My 40X was purchased from a department store back in the early 1970's and cost $265.00. It was reworked by a smith that had experience in the Remington Custom Shop, was a field rep with Remington and was a major competitive position shooter.

Do not assume my rifles are not built to the same standards of a bench rest rifle, by the best in the business.

The word "value" doesn't necessarily mean cheap. It refers to a set of features, level of function and reliability that has a favorable price.

The "extreme accuracy" shooter is working conditions and my hat's off to them, but I have been at my game for a long time, and a quarter inch group is not all that difficult to obtain with a properly set up rifle and ammunition, a .5" group is easier still and a slam dunk - and a .75" group is normal accuracy with factory ammunition. I have an old bolt action pistol that can easily deliver .5" to .75" groups at 100 yards - with open sights fired from the bench.

You fellows that shoot the low .2's and below, outdoors and in the wild - are quite the stars, I don't doubt you a bit, but then I don't envy you either.

For many years I thought benchrest competition involved 10 shot groups, how delightful it was to learn it only requires 5 shots. I used 10 shots as a minimum for statistical reasons over the chronograph, so I may have to reassess my performance. :) Reminds me of the fellow that taught himself to play the guitar like Les Paul, talked about how difficult it was, then they told him Paul's recordings were dubbed from multiple tracks!

As I said, I can't shoot that well anymore, but I have nothing to prove, to anyone, because you see, I don't much care if anyone believes me or not.

Reminds me of the time my boss and I had our clock cleaned at the pool table by a one-armed drunk, he never missed a shot and cleaned the table. It was a wonderful performance and a lesson to never again let appearances prejudice my expectations of people.
 
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go home axlenut case

come to an actual shoot and show us your 1/4 rifle in your hands, what a load of BS

jackie is right and goes to the nationals and proves it year after year,

JACKIE IS ALMOST STUPID FOR SPENDING SO MUCH TIME TRYING TO EDUCATE THE REAL FULL TIME IDIOTS

IAMGREAT.COM HAS LOST THEIR IDIOTso go back home or come out to play

It is not wonder we cannot get folks out to more shoots, they are too busy bragging on the net to be bothered,

and this other idiot who built your gun, bring him on I build mine and they will outshoot yours anyday,

buy a prefinished BR robertson stock pillar bedded, bat action, prefinished barrel done by a real br smith, screw it all together and whola

top 20 at the super shoot this year in sporter for me, then my scope went away,

does not matter the gun cost less than $2500 usa finds so all is possible for those with brains who listen


and by the way I was on team canada who finished 4th in the 2 gun at the worlds in vienna and lost to the 3 usa teams byu less than .02 mm per target

so there, do it or stay home
Jefferson
 
Another Misconception

Jackie,

Thank you for taking the time, great posts that will wiz right by some folks.

Thanks!
 
40x

Who knows Jackie Ol Tom might be a super shooter, More than likely just a zealot like the rest of us, I dont think any serious shooter actually takes talk like that seriously . I KNOW how hard it is to shoot 1/4 in. grps. & yes I got a couple a rifles that will do it IF I DO MY PART,THE WIND IS RIGHT, & GOD IS SMILING but I doubt Anyone can shoot 1/4 in every time he shoots, Im not happy with 1/2 in grps. but they make me grin anyway. Especially some of the junk I shoot. I hate a rifle that doesnt need ANYTHING. Their just no fun to me.I dont know about the rest of Yall but I shoot because Its better than the Habits I used to have , BUT LITTLE BITTY holes in paper are just that & nutin Else. Heck Id shoot a red rider if thats all I had.
 
Cooper

I have found this thread to be very interesting. I own a cooper, also own Rems, rugers, and winchesters. Most on here have complained about the triggers on the coopers, Mine was no diffrent, but a good smith took care of that just like he took care of the flaws in my other rifles. Are the coopers accurate? Yes. Are the 40X s accurate? Yes. Is one any better than the other? Damned if I know. Do they both have flaws? YUP they do. In any case it all boils down to what YOU like and what YOUR pocket can afford. I personally love em all.

What irritates me more about my Cooper is that for what I paid for the thing I now have to send it back to find out why it has broken 2 of the flimsy things they call a bolt stop pin twice in 2 years ???

Jackie, you have stated your case for the 10 shot 1/4 all day long case quite well. We must remember though that extreme accuracy is shooting, shooting is hunting, and we all know what can come out of a persons mouth at a deer camp or a fishing camp, or at 1 of your favorite shoots, reality can be stretched to say the least. Have I ever done it ? ;): Like I said before, you and varmint guy both stated your case in very elloquent ways.

Now Mr. Jefferson has a more unique approach. To get his point across, the words ignorant, idiot and stupid had to be thrown out. Not only this but it was directed at someone personally, and followed with the Get out of here you are not welcome statement all in capital letters sir which is considered shouting and RUDE in emails or discussions. To my recollection, Wilbur almost pulled the plug on this site because of this kind of CRAP. The last I knew Hybrid means an alteration of something that was already made, and that the word factory meant something that was mass produced. What you described is a full blown bench gun, custom built, and made for only one thing BENCHREST. To you Sir, I suggest that you have entered the wrong discussion room as there is one for exactly what you are talking about. Basically as you can tell I thought your demeanor was totally unwarranted.

Nuff said
 
40 x

Daaaannnnggggg yall take this stuff seriously, I just wanted Yalls opinion on a couple of rifles. Maybe thats why I dont compete except w/myself I just cant get that serious about this stuff its just fun & games for me , I hang out these places because I learn a lot from my fellow shooters , most of us arent stingy w/ our info Like some other hobbys & sports , Even Bill Calfee & his type are Quick to help with our problems Thats what I like about shooters.
 
That ain't Jefferson's style

I'm sure it gets kinda tedious in BRC listening to folks talk about their trusty rusty that'll shoot one holers all day long with store bought ammo but even when Mr Schmidt was telling that fellow to sit down and shut up, he did it in about as nice a way as you could and still get your point acrost. That's the same way he and several others were when a hunter would blunder into BRC. He'd do what he could to help them and ease them out the door. And, actually, the fellow Mr Schmidt took to school went out the door with a gentle lesson learned: if you come in here and talk that talk, be ready to walk that walk. Did you notice that most of Mr Schmidt's comments were kinda generic.

Not so, Mr Jefferson. He saw a fellow down and had to rush in for a few kicks of his own. To see if he couldn't make the guy feel like a real jerk. Mr Jefferson being a bench rest shooter and all you know. But he didn't have anything of substance to say so he resorted to name calling and got real personal. I don't know what sort of shooter Mr Jefferson is but from his post, IMO, he is not a very nice person. If he is a boss, I'm glad I don't work for him.
This probably won't be allowed to stay up, but I think it has as much of a place as Mr Jefferson's post.
 
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