40x Vs. Cooper

A

Any22

Guest
Well I told yall that I wanted a Cooper BUTTTTTT!!!! Cant find one to suit my Fancy or pocket book. Well Ive run across a 40x in 223 a repeater. Id like some experienced Opinions of the 2 Rifles , I prob. wont get as lucky as I did on the Kimber. By the way I shipped That to Ark. & the Guy LUVS it. Anyway Maybe some of yall have owned the 2 & can enlighten me ? Thanks in advance
 
The two are in different leagues. It isn't Chevy vs Ford, it is Mercedes vs Yugo. The Cooper is the superior rifle.
 
What do you want it for??

Cooper is pretty & accurate.

A VSSF II will shoot a house of fire & save $$$$ needs bedding 50% of the time to reach best accuracy)

pf
 
Any22: My Remington 40X in 222 Remington has made several groups (5 shots at 100 yards) in the high 1's with Varmint type bullets.
The last 3 groups (5 shots at 100 yards) I made with my 222 40X measured .361", .360" & .292".
I have never owned a Cooper but I have sure enjoyed every 40X I ever owned.
I am presently shooting 8 Remington 40X's in various calibers.
I have never owned a 40X in 223 Remington caliber though.
I also have 2 Remington 40X's in caliber 22 Remington Bench Rest. One of them shoots the Nosler 40 gr. Ballistic Tips at Colony Varmints for me.
The last three sight in verification groups (5 shots at 100 yards) I made with this Rifle and the 40 gr. Noslers measured .313", .278" and .287". these groups were made in three different years.
The Remington 40X line holds their values very well!
Judicious bargaining on the 40X in 223 should render you a good shooter and a GOOD investment of your money - in other words when, or if, you go to sell the 40X you will get a very high percentage of your investment back.
The Cooper Rifles also hold their values well.
I would check the throat carefully of that 40X and if it appears fresh then I would not hesitate to invest in it.
I have a call in to my friend that owns a 40X in 223 Remington - I left a message and if he gets back to me in a timely fashion I will relay his accuracy record to you.
Best of luck with whichever Rifle you buy.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
My 40X is a single shot, as is my Cooper, but the Remington has a better trigger. Moreover, my other Remington an old (about 40 years old, on its fourth barrel) M-700 repeater has a Jewel Varmint trigger. With the Remington you have a lot of choice for upgrades and accessories. There are no aftermarket triggers for the Cooper and you will need some tinkering to get a lighter pull. The Cooper isn't that bad, but it takes some trigger discipline to shoot, especially for me with nerve damage in my hands.

My Remington repeater has a laminated thumb hole pillar bedded stock I made up - very few stock makers offer Cooper inlets. There are so many Remington parts available you can go catalog happy deciding what you want. I've gone through a lot of Remingtons and they all worked well.

The old Remington 700, all tricked out in .257 Roberts Ackley will shoot .25" all day, 10 shots at 100 yards (when my brain is working). The 40X is still at Pac-Nor begin rebarreled. When it was new it would shoot similarly. Either rifle will shoot, the Remington is just more flexible.

VarmintGuy proves my old adage: "You can never have too many 40X's or ground squirrels."
 
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axlenut

"The old Remington 700, all tricked out in .257 Roberts Ackley will shoot .25" all day, 10 shots at 100 yards (when my brain is working)."

You should have been at the California State Championships in June. Your tricked out Remington 700 could have won 4 out of 5 matches in the 10 shot Unlimited Class at 100 yards. Sorry, small group for the yardage was a .248 so you would not have won small group, BUT your .2500 yardage agg. would have won by a mile - second place would have been a very distant .3812.

Ryan
 
RLHBUSL said:
"The old Remington 700, all tricked out in .257 Roberts Ackley will shoot .25" all day, 10 shots at 100 yards (when my brain is working)."

You should have been at the California State Championships in June. Your tricked out Remington 700 could have won 4 out of 5 matches in the 10 shot Unlimited Class at 100 yards. Sorry, small group for the yardage was a .248 so you would not have won small group, BUT your .2500 yardage agg. would have won by a mile - second place would have been a very distant .3812.

Ryan
Click to expand...

Wow, that's really cool. However, I ain't up to reading the wind and mirage, which kills me when the air ain't still, or the sky overcast. The Remington is quite capable, thanks to Greg Tannel, but I am the weak link. Guys that shoot BR competition are just phenomenal shooters, magical maybe, and my day is past. I can run those .250" groups for awhile, but one swirly gust of wind, looking through a different part of my corrective lens, a bit of a shift on the bags, or a twinge in my reconstructed cervical spinal cord (when my brain is working), and the groups blow out to .40". Then when you add match pressure to the equation, each perfect shot makes the next quite a struggle and the last shot is like waiting to go over Niagara Falls (Ah, rats - I pulled it!). The rifle is a .250" consistent shooter, but I am not. But on those still overcast days, when the rifle is being shot up to its potential - oh boy! :) No matter, I just shoot squirrels and get out in the woods to do it, so it's good.
 
Bought it

Well Ive Always been a Rem. Man So I Traded for it So now have 5 40xs If you can count 22 Rfs. Anyway I got it at My price . I WISH it had been a single shot But Cant have everything. Ihave a 222 also & it shoots OK but has never given me a fever About .4-.5 consistently, Im thinkin of rechambering it to 223 AI ( Iluv Those CTGS. ) ANY OPINIONS ON THAT ? I also have Some several 700s But as much as I luv them Im lookin for more accuracy. I Shoot the savages also But Just cant fall in luv w/them Like a 700. Ive got some pet loads Ill Report On The intelligence of my decision later. Heck I can STILL try a cooper.
 
Any22: Best of luck with the new Remmy!
As for your slightly sub 1/2 MOA 222 Remington 40X I say - add more scope power, get the best bullets you can find and sort out some of the best brass you can buy and then get a different set of 222 reloading dies!
Wilson in line dies if need be. That Rifle should shoot better than that on dead calm days.
I am "up in the air" on switching that 222 to a 223 Remington Ackley Improved, pros and cons - its a gamble.
I would do some more work with it before re-chambering it myself.
And again best of luck with the new 223 40X be sure to let us know how it shoots.
LaPua makes some great 223 Remington brass by the way.

Axelnut: I am like you when it comes to "agging" any of my Rifles on a day of someone elses choosing - I want to know how my Rifles, my loads, are shooting in slow fire and perfect conditions!
I know how well I can shoot, I am not interested in timed fire, rapid fire or firing in moving air or on days and under conditions of someone elses choosing.
I only test my loads/Rifles anymore under perfect light and calmest of air conditions.
Once the "testing" is done, theres plenty of time for shooting in the wind and in all kinds of light, mirage and varying field conditions.
Of course my factory/hybrid Rifles are used mainly for Hunting purposes (Varmint and Big Game).
Plus my late father would roll over in his grave if he saw me wasting ammunition and barrels making "agg's"!
He was from the depression era (born in '21) and carefully fired his 22 Rifle as a boy, at Ground Squirrels in eastern Oregon. he did this for the penny a tail bounty they had at the time.
22 ammunition was 24 cents a box of 50 back then and he could not afford misses or shots fired at paper if he wanted to keep getting his ammo bought by the counties bounty program!
Whenever I refer to my Rifles accuracy you can count on the group sizes being made on dead calm and perfect condition days - plus as of a couple of months ago, I now have access to a 105 yard long tunnel with NO wind - to do my testing in.
And I never list just the best group any of my Rifles has fired. If I do I always denotethat I am citing a Rifle of mines best group.
And normally I relay the last several groups my Rifle has made on "sight in" verification days.
Once I get an accurate loading with a bullet I prefer to use for a specific purpose I normally only fire my Rifles from then on while Hunting.
Rarely do I fire a group anymore as a form of entertainment or as competition with myself.
Keep that 1/4" Rifle - they are worth hanging on to.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
The 40x is from remingtons specialty shop, has tighter tolerances than the standard 700, better trigger, bolt has less slop than a standard 700.
That said it's a 350 chevy, lots of aftermarket things you can do with it versus the cooper, cooper is more like a maserati, not much spare parts for it.
both the 350 chevy vette and the maserati will go like the dickens and are very capable of making you proud, just depends on your pocket book and how much you are willing to spend to have the gunsmith do a trigger job on the cooper and what else it may need versus the reliable ol remmy.

but both excellent guns
 
none

i have had both rifles. i swore after the first two coopers i would never own another. the third one confirmed my earlier disgust. the cooper is a very PRETTY rifle. other than that, it is not even in the same league as a good 40x. it was mentioned that the 40x holds it value very well. you can buy a cooper for about $1250 and MAYBE get $1000 for it if it is MINT when you decide to sell. most older 40x's are bringing MORE than the original purchase price. now concerning a brand new production 40x, i just cant see the value. you can have a full custom built for little more than the MSRP of a new 40x. in the end, you will have to satisfy YOURSELF by having both and making your own decision.

chuck
 
40X All the way!!!

I am also a 40X worshiper. I have 2 Centerfires and 3 Rimfires. If you compare it to a Cooper, I now own just 1 a Rimfire model 36, the 40x are hands down the winner. The older 40X IMO are the best of the bunch.I have a 4 digit rimfire and it is a shooter 1/2" at 100 are normal this is the second early serial # that I have owned. The other was a "Bottle Cap" terror and I sold it to a man that wanted it REAL bad.
The two centerfires I have are both earlier models a 222 BBR and a 243 the Duce is a honest .3 agg and the 243 was rebarrelled to a Dasher the only thing that was done to the action was the bolt needed lapped (I changed bolt's for one with a Sako extractor). James Phillips had one that Mike Bryant stated was the best he had ever seen
I believe if you can find a early 40x that was produced when Mike Walker of Jim Stickle was at Remington I believe you will be more than happy.
Jim:):):)
 
I currently own several Cooper centerfires, including a 223. I have also owned several 40x's. In my experience, both are accurate rifles. The Remington has the benefit of several aftermarket trigger, stock etc options. The only 40x's I still have are rimfires, since I really did not see much difference in the centerfire models vs. a 700 with a good handload. A wood stocked 40x is also HEAVY with the small bore diameter.
I agree with a previous recommendation of a nice 700 VSSF.
But if you want nice wood and checkering, go with the Cooper.
 
Model 22 Cooper

I love the action on my Cooper,trigger is fair. I had a gunsmith adjust down to 1 1/2 lbs. If I close the bolt too fast it will fire. NOT GOOD. Mine is a 22/250AI rifle came with a 14" twist. Wouldn't shoot 60 gr V-maxs at all. I said to hell with it I'm buying a After market BBL 8" twist. So I now have a Cut rifled 26" 5R SS sporter weight BBL. With that BBL I can push 55gr Noslers BT 3,900+. But untill I learned how sensitive the pressure points were I said " Man why so many damn fliers? Sh--------- ! Now I have found if I rest the rifle over the middle of the forearm checkering EVERY DAMN time! Plus I hold it the same EVERY DAMN time its a very good shooter. Before I knew about the pressure points I tried the Hornady 75gr A-Maxs. Hey these shoot like sh---- Contacted BBL maker ? Sh----- I'm pi-----d What the ______@#$%&*(). Love my Cooper but not unconditionally. I have a Rem 700 chambered in 6x284 with Hart BBL and it will shoot circles around my Cooper . I will not buy another Cooper because of the trigger.
 
My problems with the Cooper (Phoenix with the synthetic stock) were partly my own fault. I ordered the Phoenix, not realizing that the heaver varmint contour would not allow low mounting of the scope objective bell. With the low comb my cheek wouldn't touch the stock when sighting through the scope. My second error was the caliber - 6.5 x 284. Now with the recoil level of the cartridge, the eye relief of the Bushnell 6.5-24 Elite 4200, and not being able to get a cheek weld on the stock - I came away with a bloody laceration where the bridge of my glasses were smacked by the scope. So, I strapped a tactical cheek rest to the stock. That helped. Then it became obvious that the forend is too round and not wide enough for a varmint stock, it's slick as glass, and it squiggles around. Couple that with the heavy and inconsistent trigger pull - and everything works against me. Things may have been better had I ordered a wood stock. I made some poor choices, no fault of Cooper. The trigger is still the weak link.

My Remington 700 laminated thumb hole stock was ordered with extra comb height and cheek piece thickness, so that after bedding and scoping I could fit the stock to provide a contour that fit my face and lined everything up off the rest. Same with the stock on the old 40X - I custom fitted it. Best accuracy requires a stress free bedding job with pillars and a completely free-floated barrel. That eliminates the pressure sensitive forend hassle -usually.

The Remington 700 chamber was setup with dummy cartridges I made up so the throat length is ideal and so is the neck diameter for the components I chose. The Cooper is a factory rifle set up with a long throat for 140 -142 grain bullets, that isn't ideal for varmint weight bullets. Everything factory is a compromise.

I still theorize that the new Savage Precision Target Action is going to be the answer to all this. The trigger is fantastic, the price reasonable, interchangeable parts and caliber swapping provide enormous flexibility. If the twist doesn't work with a bullet - then swap the barrel in five minutes or so. When my Shilen barrel and McMillan stock (with a high comb) arrives I'll put it to he test.

Bottom line, the Remington 40X is designed as a target rifle out of the box. Remington offers the 40X with a thumbhole laminated stock as a single shot or repeater, a tactical version with two different McMillan stocks and a Harris bi-pod (that stock is available after market) and several other configurations. The Cooper is a hunting rifle and sold as such. Best fit and function is obtained with customized features, no matter the brand, but Remington offers the most choice for a factory rifle. Too dang many choices.
 
Go the 40x and never look back......

Also, the standard VSSF in 223 or the VSSFII in 223 will push the limits on your capabilites to shooting skills.

On the VSSF's, just bed the action and you are ready to go.

Good luck!
 
VarmintGuy said:
Any22: My Remington 40X in 222 Remington has made several groups (5 shots at 100 yards) in the high 1's with Varmint type bullets.
The last 3 groups (5 shots at 100 yards) I made with my 222 40X measured .361", .360" & .292".
I have never owned a Cooper but I have sure enjoyed every 40X I ever owned.
I am presently shooting 8 Remington 40X's in various calibers.
I have never owned a 40X in 223 Remington caliber though.
I also have 2 Remington 40X's in caliber 22 Remington Bench Rest. One of them shoots the Nosler 40 gr. Ballistic Tips at Colony Varmints for me.
The last three sight in verification groups (5 shots at 100 yards) I made with this Rifle and the 40 gr. Noslers measured .313", .278" and .287". these groups were made in three different years.
The Remington 40X line holds their values very well!
Judicious bargaining on the 40X in 223 should render you a good shooter and a GOOD investment of your money - in other words when, or if, you go to sell the 40X you will get a very high percentage of your investment back.
The Cooper Rifles also hold their values well.
I would check the throat carefully of that 40X and if it appears fresh then I would not hesitate to invest in it.
I have a call in to my friend that owns a 40X in 223 Remington - I left a message and if he gets back to me in a timely fashion I will relay his accuracy record to you.
Best of luck with whichever Rifle you buy.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Click to expand...

That's the one I would get.

I knew a guy that had one of these in the same exact caliber. He told me he shot a 5 shot .500ctc group at 275yds. I know guys that said they seen him shooting aspirins at 100yds with this rifle. I never seen him shoot this rifle, but I seen him shoot one of his other Remington 700 bull barrel 243 that was fixed up a little, and he was shooting 5 shot groups that were hitting a dime at 100yds. He told me he had 15 bench guns that had been accurized by a guy in PA. He said the 40X 222 was the most accurate gun that he had. And he never did nothing to it besides maybe adjusting the trigger down.
 
40 x

Well I did shoot the 40 x Its everythin I Could ask for , I have to admit that it has More throat wear than I would like But STILL shoots a ragged hole, My best group w/ varmint loads was Low 3s I can live w/ that. Later on I may try setting it back , Ive never done this So Im askin Set back or new bbl. ? How would yall do it. Im not in a hurry But Will do sumthin 1 of these days
 
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