R
Ramsh00ter
Guest
Hey Guys,
Thanks guys for all the great information. I am still doing alot of research on this.
At this point the choice is still the 338 Lapua, I have pretty well decided that any new rifles built in the future will be chanbered in something that Lapua makes cases for or can be formed from Lapua brass.
I currently shoot a variation of the 338 Gibbs on a No 1 and absolutely love it! Extremely accurate with both 210 or 225 Barnes and very pleasant to shoot. But it is a 300-400 yard gun at best, after that you are playing artillary!
I got three rounds off at a monster bull starting at about 500 yards in Montana about three weeks ago, last shot was at about 650. Shot under him everytime
Watched him go up the ridge with his nose in the air and the tips of his antlers laying on his rump. I had all the time in the world to get on him, but just too much drop at those distances for my estimate and skill level.
So, next year, I will have something that reaches out there a little better. I have thought about rounds from 264 mag, 300 Wby, 30-378, etc. The 338 Lapua just keeps popping back up.
Not really too excited about needing to buy a custom action, but if that is what it takes, so be it.
Again, thanks for the info, and please add anything else that comes up, this is going to be an on going project for this winter and spring.
Randy
Thanks guys for all the great information. I am still doing alot of research on this.
At this point the choice is still the 338 Lapua, I have pretty well decided that any new rifles built in the future will be chanbered in something that Lapua makes cases for or can be formed from Lapua brass.
I currently shoot a variation of the 338 Gibbs on a No 1 and absolutely love it! Extremely accurate with both 210 or 225 Barnes and very pleasant to shoot. But it is a 300-400 yard gun at best, after that you are playing artillary!
I got three rounds off at a monster bull starting at about 500 yards in Montana about three weeks ago, last shot was at about 650. Shot under him everytime
Watched him go up the ridge with his nose in the air and the tips of his antlers laying on his rump. I had all the time in the world to get on him, but just too much drop at those distances for my estimate and skill level.So, next year, I will have something that reaches out there a little better. I have thought about rounds from 264 mag, 300 Wby, 30-378, etc. The 338 Lapua just keeps popping back up.
Not really too excited about needing to buy a custom action, but if that is what it takes, so be it.
Again, thanks for the info, and please add anything else that comes up, this is going to be an on going project for this winter and spring.
Randy
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Run the numbers through a ballistic calculator. The 338L with the 300 carries more energy at 1000yds than your other choices have at 500-600. The difference is remarkable, the 338 actually still has a full ton of energy to well beyond 1K
HARD to make them shoot under 15lb weight though IME
I'm happy with the XXXXX custom action (I can't tell you what it is for ethical reasons) but it's cheaper than doing up a RemSavage (cleverly camouflaged name that, no harm done) and the large tenon is required.
REQUIRED I say
I'm getting fantastic brass life, 1/4moa accuracy and the limiting factor is ejector marks on the tough Lapua brass. Primer pockets are holding up. I think the bases of the newer 3rd gen Berger Whatever They Call Them Nows start to deform as you approach 2900fps but that's probably my imagination. Anyways, I can't yet find good accuracy above 2800-2835 but I'm far from done. And launching the 300's at 2750 is enough to nearly double the effective yardage potential of say a 30WSM and exceed the other 30cal offerings by an insurmountable margin. You just can't get there with a 30.
I've found the Lapua case to be more tractable than the Rigby
Either case is expensive to shoot compared to the PPC
to say the least
al
HARD to make them shoot under 15lb weight though IME
I'm happy with the XXXXX custom action (I can't tell you what it is for ethical reasons) but it's cheaper than doing up a RemSavage (cleverly camouflaged name that, no harm done) and the large tenon is required.
REQUIRED I say
I'm getting fantastic brass life, 1/4moa accuracy and the limiting factor is ejector marks on the tough Lapua brass. Primer pockets are holding up. I think the bases of the newer 3rd gen Berger Whatever They Call Them Nows start to deform as you approach 2900fps but that's probably my imagination. Anyways, I can't yet find good accuracy above 2800-2835 but I'm far from done. And launching the 300's at 2750 is enough to nearly double the effective yardage potential of say a 30WSM and exceed the other 30cal offerings by an insurmountable margin. You just can't get there with a 30.
I've found the Lapua case to be more tractable than the Rigby
Either case is expensive to shoot compared to the PPC
to say the least
al
R
Ramsh00ter
Guest
Hey Al,
Thanks for the information.
I do not like cutting corners on a rifle that I expect to perform, you just end up un-happy.
I want to build something that will launch a 210-225 grain bullet (hopfully the Barnes) at 3000-3100. At this point, I don't see the advantage of anything over 250 for a hunting application.
The gun will not be used to carry back country, Spot, short stalk and shoot. I am too old to be walking around the hills with anything much over 7-8 pounds (I know, I am a whimp). So it will be a truck gun.
Per the advice I have received here and others I have talked to, a factory action such as a Rem, Win or Sav would give more headaches than I want to deal with. So it will be on one of the custom actions out there. Still researching.
I do not care if it has a magazine, single shot is fine with me. Second shot in this application is not needed that quickly. Heck, I got 3 rounds off with my No. 1 at the Elk going up the side of a hill, he traveled no more than a 150 yards between shot 1 and 3. We have all gotten pretty fast at throwing the next round in out Bench Guns.
Have you had any experience with the Stiller action?
Randy
Thanks for the information.
I do not like cutting corners on a rifle that I expect to perform, you just end up un-happy.
I want to build something that will launch a 210-225 grain bullet (hopfully the Barnes) at 3000-3100. At this point, I don't see the advantage of anything over 250 for a hunting application.
The gun will not be used to carry back country, Spot, short stalk and shoot. I am too old to be walking around the hills with anything much over 7-8 pounds (I know, I am a whimp). So it will be a truck gun.
Per the advice I have received here and others I have talked to, a factory action such as a Rem, Win or Sav would give more headaches than I want to deal with. So it will be on one of the custom actions out there. Still researching.
I do not care if it has a magazine, single shot is fine with me. Second shot in this application is not needed that quickly. Heck, I got 3 rounds off with my No. 1 at the Elk going up the side of a hill, he traveled no more than a 150 yards between shot 1 and 3. We have all gotten pretty fast at throwing the next round in out Bench Guns.
Have you had any experience with the Stiller action?
Randy
Randy,
Al just like to needle me for enforcing BR Central policies, so he takes things to absurd levels, I suppose to point out how absurd any rule can be, if taken to absurd levels. But I already knew that.
C'mon Al, I know you've shot at least a couple registered matches. All he wants is an equipment listing. Not best, not who's bad, just what you use. Think of it that way.
Al just like to needle me for enforcing BR Central policies, so he takes things to absurd levels, I suppose to point out how absurd any rule can be, if taken to absurd levels. But I already knew that.
C'mon Al, I know you've shot at least a couple registered matches. All he wants is an equipment listing. Not best, not who's bad, just what you use. Think of it that way.
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huntinco
Guest
Ram...... Trust me there are huge advantages to using the 300gr SMK on big game past 500 yards.
And if your going to go with the top gun 338 then just bite the bullet and have Kirby Allen chamber you one of his 338 Allen Mags. I see a lot of animals take a dirt nap every yr & unless plan on making a bad shot then a 6.5- or 7MM with a Berger, Accubond or SMK is more then enought out to 900yrds
And if your going to go with the top gun 338 then just bite the bullet and have Kirby Allen chamber you one of his 338 Allen Mags. I see a lot of animals take a dirt nap every yr & unless plan on making a bad shot then a 6.5- or 7MM with a Berger, Accubond or SMK is more then enought out to 900yrds
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?? If you're gonna shoot liddle bullets just build a thirty. That said the 338L case will launch these to well over 3100fps although that doesn't really help anything. A 210gr bullet still has an execrable BC I can't recommend it beyond 500yds in the field.
I've built or had built projects on 5 Stiller actions. I love Stillers, especially since they started meloniting their bolts..
It is a Stiller that I'm using currently to wring out my blown out 338L. I have chambered up 5 barrels for it and have 4 stocks fitted and another being fabricated as we speak. 4 different sets of bottom metal, some I enjoy and some I detest, lots of money involved (over 1000.00 in bottom metal alone) and I'm currently fabricating my own. I actually had opportunity to use two TAC338 actions in this project and they interchanged with no discernable difference in headspace. One is sold.
Charles, listing "equipment lists" is completely bogus and you know it. As is "private messaging" on a public forum. I've received lots of private messages that were little more that diatribes against some product or another, generally with little factual basis.
Rating consumer products on the other hand is time honored and honorable practice. There are publications devoted to this practice. Denying consumers factual information and denying open discussion of said information disallows peer review.
al
Which is a problem with an open forum that forbids insulting remarks. Unless you don't take telling someone they aren't a peer as an insult. Last time I looked, Consumer Reports didn't publish just anybody and everybody's opinion. "Open discussion" and "peer review" are contradictory notions.
K
kiwi smith
Guest
If weight is not an issue, and if you don't need a mag capacity, then you could go with the Barnard Model PL single shot bolt action. They have a 1.125" dia extension, and are speciafically set-up for the .338 lapua. McMillan will inlet stocks for them. I think MT Guns is still the agent in the US for Barnard. Action also comes with it's own trigger too.
They are a damn good action. I have to build 2 or 3 .338 Lapuas for export customers on Barnard actions in the next month. I don't think you would find any fault with one of those for what you are proposing to build.
Cheers,
Dean.
Dave Tooley
Active member
If you want a repeater a Stiller TAC338 or TCR Orion with a Weatherby mag box and BDL bottom metal works or a DM system with CIP length mag.
Single shot, a Stiller or TCR are still hard to beat.
From working with 338's almost exclusively the past 3 years you might consider the Norma Mag, I've found it to be more accurate although you give up a bit of velocity. The case that makes the most sense for a hunting rifle out to 1K is the 338/375 Ruger case. It will push 285's @2660FPS out of a 26" barrel at standard pressures and you won't notice the difference in terminal performance at that distance.
I'm sitting here looking at 600 rounds of lapua ammo and close to 300 rounds of Norma on the shelf and I would still pick the 338/375 in a rifle that weighed under 15lbs. as it will be much more enjoyable to shoot. Shoot more, shoot better.
Dave Tooley
Single shot, a Stiller or TCR are still hard to beat.
From working with 338's almost exclusively the past 3 years you might consider the Norma Mag, I've found it to be more accurate although you give up a bit of velocity. The case that makes the most sense for a hunting rifle out to 1K is the 338/375 Ruger case. It will push 285's @2660FPS out of a 26" barrel at standard pressures and you won't notice the difference in terminal performance at that distance.
I'm sitting here looking at 600 rounds of lapua ammo and close to 300 rounds of Norma on the shelf and I would still pick the 338/375 in a rifle that weighed under 15lbs. as it will be much more enjoyable to shoot. Shoot more, shoot better.
Dave Tooley
Dave Tooley
Active member
James
The older I get I find out my Dad was right. Imagine that. Use your brain instead of your back. I find I can do more with less these days. Once you get to a certain size case it costs a lot more money to shoot and is a lot less fun to shoot. In a heavy 15+ lb gun, yea go bigger if you want to but the RUM, Norma and lapua are violent rounds. Also the smaller cases are much easier to tune and keep in tune. Large quanities of very slow powders are a pain to keep shooting accurately. I have 3 Lapua's and 3 Norma's, two barrels each that I have to shoot for the next three weeks. Guns weigh about 18 lbs. I'm not looking forward to it.
The older I get I find out my Dad was right. Imagine that. Use your brain instead of your back. I find I can do more with less these days. Once you get to a certain size case it costs a lot more money to shoot and is a lot less fun to shoot. In a heavy 15+ lb gun, yea go bigger if you want to but the RUM, Norma and lapua are violent rounds. Also the smaller cases are much easier to tune and keep in tune. Large quanities of very slow powders are a pain to keep shooting accurately. I have 3 Lapua's and 3 Norma's, two barrels each that I have to shoot for the next three weeks. Guns weigh about 18 lbs. I'm not looking forward to it.
R
Ramsh00ter
Guest
Thanks for the input Dave.
Who is making the brass for the 375 Ruger? I have not done much research on the 375 Ruger.
I have had so much trouble with most of the current brass that I have pretty much decided if Lapua dosn't make the brass, I won't build a rifle for it!
Prob being pretty anal about it, that is what my head tells me to do.
Randy
Dave Tooley
Active member
I've always been a fan of a 22 PPC and as far as a Dasher, if you can't beat em you better join em.
Dave
Dave
Dave Tooley
Active member
Randy
Hornady is making the brass. I've been shooting the 338/375 for over a year as well as a 30/375 for thee years. It's not benchrest quality but no glaring problems. Great round when the size of your equipment doesn't matter. I've been pushing to bring it out as a commercial round. Law Enforecemnt would be all over it. Shootable, affordable, what's not to like. Had several discussions with snipers at Ft. Bragg last week. Almost all agree the Lapua is not the end all round for the military. My guess is 75% of the snipers can't be trained to fully utilize the full potenial of the Lapua.
Dave
Dave
Hornady is making the brass. I've been shooting the 338/375 for over a year as well as a 30/375 for thee years. It's not benchrest quality but no glaring problems. Great round when the size of your equipment doesn't matter. I've been pushing to bring it out as a commercial round. Law Enforecemnt would be all over it. Shootable, affordable, what's not to like. Had several discussions with snipers at Ft. Bragg last week. Almost all agree the Lapua is not the end all round for the military. My guess is 75% of the snipers can't be trained to fully utilize the full potenial of the Lapua.
Dave
Dave
Damn, all these years I've had it backwards. I though it was "If you can't join 'em, beat 'em."
(On the other hand, I've never gone wrong listening to Dave.)