$3000-5000 Why

J

jonmdavis62

Guest
Why would B.R.shooters spend this kind of money for a gun
that will not shoot any better than an out of the box savage.We all know that most savage's will stay under.250
all day long,rain,snow,wind,also they shoot much flatter
than most guns"don't know why ,but it was on the net so
must be true" folks say it all the time.l thought l was a
good shot for fifty years but l am not l now know. l bought
three savage varment guns in the last five years,two in 223
one in 22-250 none would stay under .75 for 5 five 5 round
targets.Hell to get old,l will just keep shooting my old 40X
and 700 Remingtons they stay in .750 to one inch at 200yds.must just be me..What are your thoughts no B S..
Thank's for listening....Jon D.
 
Accuracy of rifles

I think the accuracy of any rifle will be overstated by the casual shooter for at least two reasons:

1. They do not know how to measure group size, I have seen post 5 shot groups from their Savage 308 as .33 inch groups and yet three shots do not touch. We all like to brag and it is too easy to post pictures so people think they have something great and post the picture.

2. It is all over the net that Savages are the most accurate guns, so if they have a Savage that is shooting over 1 inch at 100 yards they fall back to 1. To state the true size would reveal their shooting inadequacies because all of us on the net know Savages all have laser like accuracy right out of the box.

I have some Savages, Rems and some customs actions and I do think the Savages make a decent platform. The introduction of the accutrigger has gotten many shooters thinking about their trigger than ever did before and given the trigger's impact on overall accuracy this has been helpful for people trying to achieve accuracy. I personally dislike the accutrigger but I think many people have found them to be great.

Just my $0.02,

wade
 
One thing that never fails to bewilder and amaze me are the guys who have a rifle that ALWAYS shoots five into one hole as far as they can see - unless someone is watching. Then an inch or two or more for five shots at 100 yards is what you'll likely see.

I've got rifles that will shoot better than I can, which isn't saying much for them anymore.

I've been told that shooting a rifle off a bench is, "no sweat, just pull the trigger...", which to anyone who's tried to get the best out of a rifle or load knows that just ain't so. Even with a rifle that has virtually no recoil like a .22 LR.

I do have rifles that shoot flatter than the average short range BR rifle, and whoopeee do! That's not the point.
 
Just seems STOOPID dunnit? That folks who've spent long lives going through the learning curves and amassing the wealth to be able to afford these 3000-5000 rifles can't see how silly they look when they're being "beat by box-stock Salvages."

people are just sooo silly.

:D

al
 
I guess that I should correct my post. I do have some hunting rifles that are in excess of your figures and they may not shoot as good as some of the Savages.
Butch
 
It Doesn't Stop There

Shooters ask me why we do not shoot "group" at our club matches. The main reason is we do not use moving backers at club matches. Shooting a group match without a moving backer is a waste of time.

There are clubs that do hold group matches, and on occasion report rather phenominol scores. Teen aggs, zeros, etc.

But strangly, when the club holds a Registered Match, many of the shooters never show up.

Must be that pesky moving backer...........jackie
 
Yes, I agree...the "all day every day" small group shooters never show up at registered matches to show every one how it is done with their "one hole" factory rifle...
But I also don't think they come here (to this website) either...
They just show up at the coffee shop or gun range talking their "trash":cool:
 
Someone wise, once said: I can not afford to buy cheap things. By the way, I never heard anyone bragging about perfect groups and scores, shooting cheap bullets, have you?
 
I thought the moving backers were a Bench Rest inovation? 'Cause people lie. Even ones that own $5000.00 guns.
I thought Wilbur set up the factory room so we common folks wouldn't come in and bother you purist. I guess I was wrong. Looks like it's so you'll have some whippin' boys handy when you've had a bad day.
Some years ago I bought a beater 788. .222Rem. I rebarreled it and when I bedded it, I wasn't as rightous as I should have been with the release agent. And so, when I banged it over the back of the sofa, I ended up with a two piece stock. I pinned it together, used some gorilla glue and epoxy and ended up with one of the ugliest stocks in West Virginia.
Since I couldn't hurt it anymore, I cut a flat surface on the forearm and glued a flat plate to it and had a shadetree friend bubba-ize the trigger to where it was adjustable. It would break at a clean 8ozs. I painted it a flat gray and mounted a T36 on it. That was one ugly rifle.
At the local club they were holding Bench matches and factory matches and planned on adding modified so I took it out there. Nobody showed up for modified so they stuck me in with the stool shooters.
I'd love to tell some Horatio Alger story and say I won but, of course, I didn't. But I did finish up in the upper half by a little bit. No telling what a really good shooter could have done.
Not counting the scope, I had about $800.00 tied up in the rifle.
 
Good story, well written...Doing that well with that rifle must have been a real rush. It would be fun to see what you could do with a more typical short range Benchrest rifle. I have owned and tuned more than one 788. They were great to learn about bedding and trigger work on. I wish every shooter had a rifle with potential that he was not afraid to work on. We have become a lot more "buy it and shoot it" and "have it worked on" than in years past. That is too bad.
 
beemanbeme said:
I thought the moving backers were a Bench Rest inovation? 'Cause people lie. Even ones that own $5000.00 guns.
I thought Wilbur set up the factory room so we common folks wouldn't come in and bother you purist. I guess I was wrong. Looks like it's so you'll have some whippin' boys handy when you've had a bad day.
Some years ago I bought a beater 788. .222Rem. I rebarreled it and when I bedded it, I wasn't as rightous as I should have been with the release agent. And so, when I banged it over the back of the sofa, I ended up with a two piece stock. I pinned it together, used some gorilla glue and epoxy and ended up with one of the ugliest stocks in West Virginia.
Since I couldn't hurt it anymore, I cut a flat surface on the forearm and glued a flat plate to it and had a shadetree friend bubba-ize the trigger to where it was adjustable. It would break at a clean 8ozs. I painted it a flat gray and mounted a T36 on it. That was one ugly rifle.
At the local club they were holding Bench matches and factory matches and planned on adding modified so I took it out there. Nobody showed up for modified so they stuck me in with the stool shooters.
I'd love to tell some Horatio Alger story and say I won but, of course, I didn't. But I did finish up in the upper half by a little bit. No telling what a really good shooter could have done.
Not counting the scope, I had about $800.00 tied up in the rifle.
Click to expand...

Friend beemanbeme, WHAT is with you and your pathological distaste for benchrest?? Have you got some liberal bent toward equality or somesuch? Can't stand "better" or "more accurate" or Lord Forbid actually factually ensuring an even playing field whatever the venue?

This IS a benchrest site and the OP (A Mr jonmdavis62 in case you fergot) MENTIONS B.R. IN HIS FIRST SENTENCE!

You can't seem to say "benchrest" without adding phrases like "whipping boy" and "purist"...... give it a REST eh!

just beam me up man.... I can't hack all the negativity

:D

al
 
I'll have to disagree with the moving backer thing.

Riverbend holds club matches and even though we have a moving backer system - we don't go through the trouble to use it at club matches. It takes too many people to run it, and too long to set up.

I have never in 10 years of shooting group club matches ever considered that someone would shoot a four shot group. It may have happened - but if it has, it was a rare instance. I truly believe in the integrity of the group of guys that shoot our matches. I refuse to believe that it has ever happened at Riverbend, and if so , I prefer to remain ignorant.

I have shot many a great four shot group and did not want to ruin it with the fifth, but alas, a four shot group is like a sundae with no cherry.
 
I have a Savage Model 12 Varminter in 22-250 and I think it does a good job. However, it is a varminter -- a lighter rifle not set up like a full bench rifle. It is about a 12- lb. gun. Let's not compare apples and oranges.

I have a very experienced friend who has done a lot of competition shooting over the years, and who builds fine rifles. I sent him scans of a few of my targets over the last year, and he was very surprised at what I was getting out of an "off the shelf" commercial rifle.

As for this "shooting one-hole groups all day" . . . . This is pretty much bull, I think. I often fire about 25 rds each trip to the range -- about five 5-shot strings. The first string is out of a cleaned, oiled, and cold barrel, and often is not very meaningful. That only leaves 4 strings for record. Maybe I get one group, or at the most two, that are worth measuring and copying into my notebook. Some days I get none!

Some of it is me-- even a tiny holding error will ruin a good group. Some of it is the gun -- it walks when it gets hot, and badly needs a professional bedding job. Sometimes it is the day -- e.g., a shifting wind. Sometimes it is the loads -- an experimental load that did not pan out.

What I love are people who come on here and confidently state they have rifles that shoot these tiny groups time after time, day after day and week after week -- specially when they are not talking about benchrest rifles. I just flat out don't believe them.

All things considered, for a hobbyist gun purchased by someone who does not compete in matches, but just to have fun, the Savage is a good deal. I only paid $479 for it, full retail price at Ace Hardware.

To get much cheaper than that, they would have to give them away in Cracker Jack boxes.
 
Noth Fork said:
I think bench rest shooters have contribute more to the shooting sport then any other group.
Click to expand...

Amen to that....When l started this l was half jokeing,it is
so damn tiring to see how so much crap on the net about
my $400 gun that l reload for with my hammer and Lee
loader and get groups that would scare the hell out of the
best B.R. shooter's..l have four good shooters,two 40X's
two worked over 700's and l love them,But they would all
place very low at a real match l think...l have only shot one
one full B.R. gun,Damn hard not to shoot great...This is
the only place l know of to talk to guy's who know a thing
or three about shooting and loading...We all like to bs about our shooting so it best to keep it honest..That is why
l do my asking there...
Thank you all....Jon D.
 
Sorry, Al. No negativity intended. I guess I mis-read the opening post of this thread to be something other than the "open-armed, welcome to Bench Rest" that it was. :D
 
In my lifetime of shooting I've had some good barrels, I've had some great barrels and factory wise I've only had one great barrel. Only barrel by the factory that was just beyond belief was on a 722 Remington that I jugged out from a .222 Remington to a .223 Remington (brass was easy to get) It was so good I had to brag it up to Mike Walker. But like all good things it was a one and only short lived thing.

I well remember the words of and old hunting buddy of mine on his first attempt at benchrest shooting. After he shot his first five at one hundred (using my set up) He looked me straight in the eye, and told me, "their is a lot more to this benchrest shooting than just lining up the cross hairs and pulling the trigger, ain't there"? Yes, it called reading all these wind flags out there.

When a non benchrest shooter tells me about a phenomenal group his out of the box rifle did, I just ask what kind of wind flags he uses.:D
 
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