30 PPC variants

[mwezell]

Yup Mike, my Gorilla is 1.500

Jim, do you know how much capacity he gains by using the 40°? I'm just curious. It can't be much, but it might help with 4198 and powders that are borderline in the Major. My guess is a grain or less. If it's much more, it may be worth it for that little bit of room.

I use mainly 7-3/4 or 8 ogive bullets. Not because I have to, but because it's what a couple of makers are using that I've found to be good bullets. The extra room it gives is just a bonus, as the 7's work too. I've had better luck, consistently, with any of those than 10 ogives. A few people like the 10's, but I've seen a few barrels that didn't shoot them well.

 

[Jim Pag]

Jim, do you know how much capacity he gains by using the 40°? I'm just curious. It can't be much, but it might help with 4198 and powders that are borderline in the Major. My guess is a grain or less. If it's much more, it may be worth it for that little bit of room.

I use mainly 7-3/4 or 8 ogive bullets. Not because I have to, but because it's what a couple of makers are using that I've found to be good bullets. The extra room it gives is just a bonus, as the 7's work too. I've had better luck, consistently, with any of those than 10 ogives. A few people like the 10's, but I've seen a few barrels that didn't shoot them well.

No I don't know the case capacity of the 30 Gorilla. It has a 35 degree shoulder, not a 40. When I load 32 grains of 4198, it's half way up the neck. I have 0.160" left from the top of the neck to the powder level. With the same charge of LT30, I have 0.210" left in the neck. At 33 grains of LT, I get the same space left as I do with 32 of H4198. I measure my loads on a GD503 Sartorius scale and use a 10" funnel/drop tube to load them. Hope that helps u out Mike. As far as bullets go, Larry told me that anything with a .925 jacket will work. Larry, Cascarino, and Guthrie all used Bib 112's. They all said that bullet works great. I only have about 1K left, but I just received 5K of Bart's 112's and I'm sure those will shoot lights out when used, providing I do my part. Do u coat your bullets Mike? I've been using HBN for about a season now and I really like the stuff. Can't wait to try all this stuff, but we have more snow coming for the next 2 days. Why I moved north instead of south, I'll never know. Momentary lapse of reason or just major brain damage. More likely the latter of the 2.

 

[mwezell]

No I don't know the case capacity of the 30 Gorilla. It has a 35 degree shoulder, not a 40. When I load 32 grains of 4198, it's half way up the neck. I have 0.160" left from the top of the neck to the powder level. With the same charge of LT30, I have 0.210" left in the neck. At 33 grains of LT, I get the same space left as I do with 32 of H4198. I measure my loads on a GD503 Sartorius scale and use a 10" funnel/drop tube to load them. Hope that helps u out Mike. As far as bullets go, Larry told me that anything with a .925 jacket will work. Larry, Cascarino, and Guthrie all used Bib 112's. They all said that bullet works great. I only have about 1K left, but I just received 5K of Bart's 112's and I'm sure those will shoot lights out when used, providing I do my part. Do u coat your bullets Mike? I've been using HBN for about a season now and I really like the stuff. Can't wait to try all this stuff, but we have more snow coming for the next 2 days. Why I moved north instead of south, I'll never know. Momentary lapse of reason or just major brain damage. More likely the latter of the 2.

Thanks Jim. Yes, I coat mine with Danzac. I use it because of the reduced, almost eliminated, copper fouling. As you know, I like to go against the grain a bit.
I've won matches with 400 rounds down the tube without cleaning..using coated bullets.(more than once!) When I finally cleaned..no more copper than normal. Go figure!

I like shooting and enjoying the company more than I care for cleaning. What can I say? I thought it was more to do with the 30's not fouling much until I tried it with a 22 cal and saw the same thing. It works for me, but as always, YMMV. I don't go that far without cleaning often, but I almost never clean during a match any more. I tied a record last year at a night shoot like this. Of course I finished 2nd! Maybe I'd of won if I cleaned?

 

[Pete Wass]

I use to be a champion of not cleaning

NO more. My experience with RF rifles has taught me otherwise. From my experience, most barrels never shoot better than they do right after fouling them from being white patch clean. I found this to be true with my 30 BR's as well. Yes, they are somewhat forgiving with regard to not cleaning them but I go back to what I said previously. The quest is to find a product-compound that will instantly, or nearly so, take carbon away. To date, Zip Strip seems to be the fastest but something even more aggressive would be preferred, by me anyway. We don't have all that much time to get barrels spotlessly clean at matches. I have been the coated bullet route as well but, like I said, they never shoot better than right after being spotless, from my experience.

Pete

 

[Jim Pag]

NO more. My experience with RF rifles has taught me otherwise. From my experience, most barrels never shoot better than they do right after fouling them from being white patch clean. I found this to be true with my 30 BR's as well. Yes, they are somewhat forgiving with regard to not cleaning them but I go back to what I said previously. The quest is to find a product-compound that will instantly, or nearly so, take carbon away. To date, Zip Strip seems to be the fastest but something even more aggressive would be preferred, by me anyway. We don't have all that much time to get barrels spotlessly clean at matches. I have been the coated bullet route as well but, like I said, they never shoot better than right after being spotless, from my experience.

Pete

Pete I use to clean after every 2 relays. Then I talked to Breeden about cleaning because he uses T D on his bullets. He told me that he goes up to 3 matches without cleaning, so I just clean when I come home from a match. I never noticed any difference between the old way and the new way that I clean as far as accuracy goes. Hey whatever works for you.

 

[Pete Wass]

Mebby depends on the barrel

Pete I use to clean after every 2 relays. Then I talked to Breeden about cleaning because he uses T D on his bullets. He told me that he goes up to 3 matches without cleaning, so I just clean when I come home from a match. I never noticed any difference between the old way and the new way that I clean as far as accuracy goes. Hey whatever works for you.

Yes. It's a personal choice. It's the same sort of argument about throwing vs weighing charges. I often wonder how much better the best shooters who don't make their ammo as perfect as it could be with a bit of extra care. Perhaps the records would be even stronger than they are.

Pete

 

[jackie schmidt]

Pete, I shoot an entire agg with my 30BR and never clean, but I clean my 6PPC after every group.

When I shot the 25 X's 2 weeks ago, my last target was five wipeouts, maybe the best target of the day.

I might try an agg without cleaning the 6 this weekend st The Crawfish..

 

[Wilbur]

Don't do it! It's been done several times and it goes bad in one shot. Fine to bad in a single shot.

Pete, I shoot an entire agg with my 30BR and never clean, but I clean my 6PPC after every group.

When I shot the 25 X's 2 weeks ago, my last target was five wipeouts, maybe the best target of the day.

I might try an agg without cleaning the 6 this weekend st The Crawfish..

 

[Pete Wass]

Well, I did it for years also

Pete, I shoot an entire agg with my 30BR and never clean, but I clean my 6PPC after every group.

When I shot the 25 X's 2 weeks ago, my last target was five wipeouts, maybe the best target of the day.

I might try an agg without cleaning the 6 this weekend st The Crawfish..

But it also took me a long time to get the barrel clean after the match, like all week. I also got to thinking about the differences between RF guns and CF guns. For one thing, RF matches are typically 6- 25 record bull cards per match day. I find that my RF rifles will shoot well through three 25 bull cards with light cleaning between but accuracy drops off after the third card. Perhaps it's wrong thinking on my part making a comparison based on my RF experience.

Pete

 

[mwezell]

But it also took me a long time to get the barrel clean after the match, like all week. I also got to thinking about the differences between RF guns and CF guns. For one thing, RF matches are typically 6- 25 record bull cards per match day. I find that my RF rifles will shoot well through three 25 bull cards with light cleaning between but accuracy drops off after the third card. Perhaps it's wrong thinking on my part making a comparison based on my RF experience.

Pete

Pete, refer to post 23. IME, fouling was little, if at all more than cleaning between cards, shooting cf with coated bullets. Again, YMMV, but I don't remember the last time that I cleaned at a match. And again, I tied an AGG record, last year like this.

 

[Lee Martin]

A year and a half later, I'm starting in on a 30. I've decided to neck up 6.5 Grendel and improve the shoulder to 40 degrees. Think I'll call it a "30 Stingray". It's really nothing more than a Major+10 or a Gorilla+5. We'll grind our own reamer with a 0.330" neck and zero free-bore. Sound about right or is there an argument for mild free-bore with 112 - 118 grain bullets? I'll probably swage my own and haven't decided on the ogive yet. When I talk to George Ulrich I'll see what he recommends. Of course I'm always open to this forum's suggestions.

Thanks,

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

 

[bstroud]

Grinch

Lee, we have a case that we call the Grinch now that is a Grendel case blown out with a 40 degree shoulder that we have been using with 6mm bullets from 68 gr all the way up to 108 gr. We also went ahead and made a 30 Grinch also. The reamer print is at JGS.

 

[bstroud]

30 Grinch

This is what we use.