30 ppc? thread hijacked

F

Frankr

Member
Well im shooting the 14 twist 6BR..I have been able to shoot groups consistently @.150 at 100yrds and @.300-.400 at 200yrds. in calm to mild conditions.
I just shot in my first club 100/200yrd match and got KA-R-E-A-M-E-D! ??
I shot like a .359agg at 200 and a .360 agg at 100..
I had the match jitters and could not get setteled down. It also seemed my rifle was just a slight bit out of tune and i wasent seeing the useaual out of it,, semed i was a fish out of water and just fell apart.. so my shooting was real bad, i would say the worst i have ever shot at 100yrds. conditions were sporting but not real bad, think the winning agg at 100 was like .199 and i think 200 was like .220 so there were small groups. I think there was a .178 200 yrd group and a .120 100yrd group. so some were shooting well.BUT not me..I had a great time and a great day and learned alot. cant wait to change my practice routine and buy some wind flags. I cant wait to shoot my next match. It really was a fun day of shooting even if i dident do well.
The big question is can my 6BR shoot group?
Is the 6ppc really that much better?
 
Last edited:
Get some good flags and learn how to read them, never shoot without them, and practice in any and all conditions...just like a match, with a timer and all. Set up just like you would at a match. If your gun shoots like you say, you'll move up the standings. As to the PPC vs. BR, I'll leave that up to others, but it's been well covered here many times.---Mike
 
"buy some wind flags."

The most important part of your plan is to get windflags. No, the 6 PPC is not that much better, practicing with flags will improve your scores faster than a change to PPC and you can decide whether you want to try it when you get ready for your next barrel.

Scott Roeder
 
Last edited:
As previously stated, get a set of wind flags and learn from them. This will improve your results better than 100%. Whether of not the 6ppc is better than the 6br is an argument that has been long settled. It is...for short range BR (100-200yd). But...even if you were to change to the best tuned 6ppc rifle in the world, it would do you no good until you learn to read the conditions and the flags. Keep going to your club matches, refine your condition reading with flags and your rifle tuning techniques. And...don't be shy; ask questions of the consistent match winners(always in the top five). Keep using your 6br until the barrel goes and then make the decision whether to change to the 6ppc. By then you will have learned a lot and can put it to good use if you decide to change.

Good luck...virg
 
ok thanks..yep going to get some flags..main problem was i had no idea what they were telling me because they were all doing something different.
been sitting here analyzing my targets and would have to say i did well but lost a few shots here and there that hurt me bad and i could not get settled down
and one 200 yrd target had 4 shots that were a .290 and one off for a .560...my worst one had 4 shots .535 and one off to make a 1.088 and i did see the condition that caused that,a big let up and it stayed so i held off a little and it did not help,i needed to hold off alot. one 100yrd target i had 4 shots in a .157 and lost one out to the right for a .491
shot a .258 that had some vertical in it and we did have a strong tail wind and i know this load will get some vertical with a tail wind(so that group was close to being a .150 something.shot a .239 with the same story.shot a .428 left to right slit? so really looking over the targets i think just some match jitters and unable to read some conditions hurt me the most. but it was fun and i cant wait to do it again.But i really thought i could have easily agg'd a .250 . but it was much harder under match conditions than i thought.
 
mark-x said:
ok thanks..yep going to get some flags..main problem was i had no idea what they were telling me because they were all doing something different.
been sitting here analyzing my targets and would have to say i did well but lost a few shots here and there that hurt me bad and i could not get settled down
and one 200 yrd target had 4 shots that were a .290 and one off for a .560...my worst one had 4 shots .535 and one off to make a 1.088 and i did see the condition that caused that,a big let up and it stayed so i held off a little and it did not help,i needed to hold off alot. one 100yrd target i had 4 shots in a .157 and lost one out to the right for a .491
shot a .258 that had some vertical in it and we did have a strong tail wind and i know this load will get some vertical with a tail wind(so that group was close to being a .150 something.shot a .239 with the same story.shot a .428 left to right slit? so really looking over the targets i think just some match jitters and unable to read some conditions hurt me the most. but it was fun and i cant wait to do it again.But i really thought i could have easily agg'd a .250 . but it was much harder under match conditions than i thought.
Click to expand...

Welcome to BR! That's how the flags will look MOST of the time. Ya better get used to it and learn when NOT to pull the trigger. I don't always know either. __Mike
 
Last edited:
What comes to my, some what inexperienced mind, is gun handling characteristics. The shooter admitted he couldn't get settled in, and that he was jittery. That alone will cause shots going out of the group, and basic poor performance. This is an area that i feel is the first, and fore most, even before learning to utilize wind flags. Poor technique trumps everything.................... yes wind flags are very important, but what good are they if you dont handle and repeat your technique/rifle properly? I have been working on this very seriously here lately, and it matters big time. Also what i see a lot of young or new shooters doing, is trying to shoot there rifle free recoil. I think this is a bad idea unless you absolutely know you have a perfect set up and a properly balanced rifle, plus a solid technique. I know i sure dont! I have to pin my rifle to get the performance i desire. The shooter didnt say he was shooting free recoil, so maybe this is a non issue, but i see a lot of new shooter doing this. I did when i first started, and it didn't work! It still doesn't work for me most days. Actually i dont even try it much anymore. Anyway i dont have any idea if a 6BR can shoot with a 6PPC. I have been told that it wont, but i really dont know. I think it might with proper technique, and a good well balanced rifle, and lots of practice, but the ppc is still definitely the way to go if short range is your game of choice. There is a lot to this game we play, and it AINT easy!! LOL!! Actually it can be pretty dam hard at times. Shooting small groups, on the home range on Sunday morning is a different deal than shooting 5 small groups during match day. Why? It just is!!
I was a level 2 sporting clays instructor at one time, and i spent more time re-teaching folks the fundamentals of the game, than teaching anything else. Time and time again!! Proper fundamentals are the key to any shooting disciplin. This is how i think anyway. Keep in mind that I am just a nobody, that loves fine rifles, and good people. I enjoy this game we play, and i spend a lot of my time thinking about how i can improve. I also spend to much time thinking what piece of equipment i can get that would help me improve, and that isnt were it is at, when i get honest with myself. Like mentioned above i would keep that 6br rifle of yours and just work on proper technique, that will give you repeated results. even if your results are high to low 3's. Maybe thats the best your rifle is capable of, i wouldn't know. whatever the case may be, your results just need to be consistent. thats the key to this game. I have talked way to much here, so I suggest you get some flags and get to work. Learn a solid foundation that works for you. Get a mentor that has been around here a while. I have one and i talk with him daily. He is a good man, and he has opened my mind to different ideas, even when i wasn't all that willing. It takes a lot of practice to compete at the highest levels in this game. Most of us dont have that kind of time, or resources it takes to compete at this level. I try to compete with me, and i have a lot of work to do!!! Good luck friend, and enjoy!! Lee
 
Skeetlee, i shoot with a light to hard hold, i have shot some good groups free recoil if i have alot of time to shoot.
my rifle does not ride the bags well, i have to steer it a good bit, im working on that.
skeet i got my new haverkamp action and its going into a edge stock. so im looking forward to it ride n the bags better.
I know what the rifle is capleable of and it can agg .180-.225 at 100yrds . but it is going to be hard to prove that in competition it seems.
but i will keep shooting and learned i need to change a few things, some weeknesses in my shooting and in my load that i knew about but thought i would get away with
because i do most of the time at my local range, but definitely did not get away with anything in the match, showed me every problem i had.
i really did learn alot and i will keep shooting the 6BR untill i decide there is some freekey tune thing, but i did tune it after my first group at 200 i went up 4 clicks on the powder and that brought it in and i might of shot some .300 at 200yrds if i could have read the flags and wasent so jittery. it was a three hr drive and i had two 22oz cup's of coffee.
I could make excuses all day how many do you want to hear. no just kidding.
 
well we were talking about other cartridges winning in group BR other than the 6ppc.and i said i was shooting the 6BR and had some
good success with it shooting small competitive groups and was heading to a club match to prove it...lol...
mike as i believe you have said, i think the ppc's accuracry is beyond most of are abilities
in bag fired rifles,but i believe there are other cartridges that can shoot to that level of accuracry. At least at this time i still believe that. maybe time will change my mind.
two 200 yrd targets from my match you can see i was close(i know close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades) but does that look like a rifle that wont shoot.
had to throw in some 100yrd practice targets. i know the rifle is very capable of being competitive, but i need to work on a few things and shoot more matches..
Oh the 100yrd groups that show the vertical i was fighting a tail wind with mild left to right wind(100yrd practice)
 

Attachments

  • scan0002.jpg
    scan0002.jpg
    88.4 KB · Views: 321
  • target set 8-8 agg0001.jpg
    target set 8-8 agg0001.jpg
    85.7 KB · Views: 299
  • 4-.0780002.jpg
    4-.0780002.jpg
    93 KB · Views: 263
  • target0001.jpg
    target0001.jpg
    48.8 KB · Views: 275
Last edited:
Frank, I believe there is more than one cartridge that is capable of shooting better than we as shooters and humans can shoot them. Does that tell ya where I stand on that?:)--Mike
 
Mike Stinett just took a second in the Two Gun at the Texas State Unlimited-HV Championships. He was shooting his version of a 30 caliber, based on the Grendal case.

He bested many of the top shooters in the Region, won the HV 200 outright.

Right now, the 30PPC or it's variants, the 30BR, and the 22 PPC short are the viable options to go heads up against the 6PPC. The lack of suitable bullets probably hinders other calibers.

As for the 6BR, no, in the end, you will leave too much agging capability on the table to go heads up with any of these. A little too much case capacity is the culprit.

Others have tried. You can beat your head against the wall trying, but in the end, the reality of the situation will set in........jackie
 
Last edited:
If you'll pardon the pun, until you practice with wind flags and really learn to shoot with them, you're pissin' into the wind.
 
well im not going to make excuses for my poor shooting but this barrel does have like 1,500 rounds on it and i think the throat is getting a little sore
but it will still shoot. im going to shoot it the rest of the year and my new build,im going to chamber another 6BR ,one barrel to play with and the other barrrel
will be in the 6ppc.then this rifle is getting a 6dasher barrel. Im going back to shoot in another match,cant wait ,,this time im going to bring the heat...lol..
 
mark-x said:
i had two 22oz cup's of coffee.
Click to expand...
Mark, don't underestimate the effect of the caffeine. I can understand the need for some to wake up and drive 3 hrs, but for shooting, you need to be calm when you pull the trigger. Everyone has their own level that gives them the jitters, but if you are sensitive to the stuff, cut down drastically from what you consumed that day.

Welcome to the madness,
Keith
 
mark-x said:
Well im shooting the 14 twist 6BR..I have been able to shoot groups consistently @.150 at 100yrds and @.300-.400 at 200yrds. in calm to mild conditions.
Click to expand...

Yes, but aside from groups to pull out of your wallet, shooting in calm to mild conditions isn't worth much. Perfect for learning what doesn't work, & that's about all.

It also seemed my rifle was just a slight bit out of tune and i wasent seeing the useaual out of it . . .
Click to expand...
Yes, that's typical for a match, esp. when you've tuned in mild conditions. How to put it -- how about this: a well-tuned rifle doesn't so much shoot tiny groups as shoot through mild condition changes with no further work on your part.

cant wait to change my practice routine and buy some wind flags.
Click to expand...
Yes. Step 1

The big question is can my 6BR shoot group? Is the 6ppc really that much better?
Click to expand...
Think Jackie & others answered that one.
 
Mark
Down here there are a lot of matches where a .350 agg would win the match at 200 yards.
I really don't think that using a 6BR compared to a 6PPC was the difference between your not winning the match. I have been beat several times by a 6BR when I was shooting a 6PPC......and so was everybody else that day.
Ted
 
Yea thanks ted, the rifle shoots. and i can not or do i believe that a rifle that can shoot groups as tight as the 6BR can, can not be competitive.
but i learned alot, and i was hard on a few cases, i had to FL size them. Like i said got a new barrel comming and i will keep working at it untill im sure it just cant do it
in competition for some strange reason. but im ready to give that 6ppc another try anyway. but both of my 6BR's would out shoot any of the five ppc rifles i have owned.
so you can kind of see why i feel the way i do.And this barrel im shooting has like 1,500 rounds through it, when it was new it was kind of hard to shoot anything over a .200 at 100yrds, Yes it was early in the morning very light to no wind..but hey if a rifle shoots that well i cant see how it wont shoot in the wind if steered right.And i have crony'd this load at 3,530 fps mv..so i feel i have shot through some conditions with it.
I cant wait to go back and give it another try.
 
Last edited:
Mark
I wouldn't get to discouraged. Just keep practicing. You might try to practice some when the winds are up but if you can only get out there when the winds are down then go anyways. Practice is practice, and if you can only practice when the winds are light then that is better than no practice.
The general trend seems to be for guys do do well initially when they first start at BR and then go down hill for a year or two before they get caught back up. I got a 2nd at my first match and then it took over a year to get back in the money.
Also don't get discouraged because of a bad yardage. The last match I shot I got dead last at 100 yards and then came back and took 2nd at 200 yards.
Your barrel may be getting near the end of its BR life. Some guys seem to think they are done by about 1200-1500 rounds with the PPC which is a bit easier on the barrel than the BR just do to less powder being burned. Personally I have a hard time figuring out when a barrel is done since I don't shoot that consistently, so I just get a new one at around 1500 rounds.
I don't worry to much about velocity. It isn't a race to the target and I don't think that an extra 150 or 200 fps is going to help that much. If I thought velocity was the key I would chamber up a 6mm-06 and go at it.
I suppose the 6PPC out paces the 6BR in competition is because it is just as good or better and does all with less powder and recoil. And it is pretty easy on the barrel.
Ted
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top