270-08

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
I have always wondered why Winchester hasn't answered Remingtons 7-08, and 260, with the truly all American caliber, the 270.

I have always wanted to build a 270-08, even though I know it is a answer to a question nobody asked.

And while they are at it, why not a 25-08............jackie
 
The 270-08 would be a nice round for a short action, but probably not popular enough to justify development for a big company :(.

I have always been a fan of the .270 bore cartridges. Much of my North American hunting has been with the 270 Winchester, and recently I have been using a nice lightweight custom 270 WSM.

I just got a new reamer from PTG for the 270/257 Ackley Improved, and am looking forward to trying this out.

Jim
 
Why not a 270 X 284

This would give one 30-06 powder capacity in a short action cartridge and offer it with good hunting weight bullets.

Nat Lambeth
 
Actually, is there really any need for it? Considering that in the past 40 years practically anything you can imagine has been brought out, in one configuration or another. For that same reason, there is no point in going wild anymore.
Jackie, in answer to your question, I would think Winchester has looked at the market and asked themselves...how much of the market can we get ?
Remember when Remington commercialised the .35 Whelen in the 760 slide?
That really didn't go anywhere, although all they had to do is change the chambering, because they already had that action in the .35 Rem caliber. ( and I had the 1st Whelen done up by "Obermeyer" back in the early 60's in my slide .)
The other thing could be is that in spite of the popularity of the famed .270, (which I own in an FN action), bullet selection is somewhat limited as opposed to the 7mm. Those are my thoughts on your question.
 
Jackie

I'll give you another option/choice. How about a 270 Savage off the 300 case. I always thought that a 300 based 270 Savage would give you just a bit more room to seat the 150s out in a SA Rem. I've done enough other odd things ;) but just never got around to do this 1 yet.
 
The 6.8 spc in the ii chamber is producing some pretty amazing velocities out of short tubes with the AR hunting crowd. Barnes is also about to release a 95gr pill just for this round as well.


pf
 
jackie schmidt said:
. . .the truly all American caliber, the 270. . .
Click to expand...

Most non-cartridge collectors would be surprised to learn that the 270 is not as all American as they think. The caliber (6.8mm) actually originated in the very early 1900s as a Chinese military chambering. Frankford Arsenal picked up on the .277 as a possible US military caliber and did some testing but abandonded the idea in favor of the Cal .30. It's believed that Winchester produced 6.8 x 60mm ammunition for the Chinese Army which, in turn, inspired them to develop and introduce the 270 Winchester.

The 270 Savage is an old wildcat from pre-WW II days. The Ackley version comes close to duplicating the 270 Winchester. The 270/308 is also an old wildcat that came out in the 1950s soon after Winchester introduced the 308 W. The 25-08 is the old 25 L&W Super which pre-dates the 308, having been made from shortened 30-06 brass.

There's not much that wildcatters have not already tried.:)

Ray
 
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Somewhere in my junk I've got a .270-300 Savage case (.270 Titus I think it was called), and right after the .308 came out someone necked it to .25 and called it the .25 Souper (Warren Page maybe, but my memory doesn't even work hard enough to play tricks on me anymore).

Someone probably did a .270-308 50 years ago too. If they did Ackley probably had it in his books.
 
The 257 roberts is awful close to what a 25-08 would be. The 257 roberts is based off the 7mm mauser. The Mausers are awful close is basic dimensions to the 308 based rounds. So performance wise the 25-08 already exists in the form of the 257 roberts. +P of course.

However, none of this matters. I'd still like a 25-08, a 257 roberts, and a 270-08.

Come to think of it, I'd like a lot of different calibered rifles for no logical reason other than sheer gluttony.:):):D
 
270-08 would land in the middle between 260 Rem and 7-08. Probably not offering much improvement over either of them but no worse either. 25-08 would make for a very nice hunting round with mild recoil. Good for deer and whitetail and varmint shooting with 75 gr bullets. I have a rifle in 25-08 AI and ballistically it is about the same as 257 Roberts, very close to 25-06 but can be used successfully on a short Rem 700 action where a .257 Roberts is a tad too long for you to be able to seat the bullet as far out as you like and still make use of the magazine.

.25-08 has a bit more power than a .243 if you use 120 gr bullet. On the other hand I also had a 25BR AI that would give me same velocity or more than a .243 with the same weight of bullets. That would make very soft and accurate medium range deer load 100gr bullet @ 3100 fps
 
I shoot both a 270-08 and its better brother, the improved version. For all practical purposes the '08 version approximates the Win performance, the improved version duplicates it, but burn about 10-15 grains less powder in the process.

Both are built as whitetail rifles, both with 22" LWT 12T barrels, one on a SA 70 the other on a SA 700. I only use 130s, so I can't comment on the other weights, but velocity wise, the 270-08 are in the 2800-2900 range, the improved, 3050-3150 depending on the bullet and accuracy.

In the areas I hunt the typical shot is 100 yards or less, 200 would be long one. I wasn't concerned if cartridge "A" is marginally better than cartridge "B" in those situations, ranges and conditions. Their only purpose was to have a 27 bore in a shorter, lighter carry rifle with the performance that duplicated the 270 Win. They do that.

Are they special, a vast improvement or better than anything else? Nope, just another option and something else to play with. I know there are supposedly better cartridges that are micro analyzed down to the .001 fps as "better", but for "MY" intended purpose either one does exactly what the others do except get the dumbfounded look when someone asks me what I'm shooting.

BTW, Kiff has the reamers and CH will make the dies. Brass is a simple matter of necking your favorite 308 brass in a FL or bushing die for either version.

Bill
 
1/4in bore just gets no love. I thought the .25 WSSM would be the best seller of the Super Shorts, but they are the least seller. Aren't the 25 WSSM and .25-08 similar performance. Anybody shoot .25BR?

I can't remember if it was Lyman book or Handloader Journal that said .243 Win did in the .257 Bob and .250-3000.

Lyman 49th also mentioned the .277 being an ancient Chinese caliber.
 
I have started shooting the 25 BR. It is fast and very accurate with light recoil. At present I have two barrels. So far I am impressed. Been using Randy's 88 gr BIB bullets which are excellent.
 
I've had a .25 BR competition rifle, a .257 hunting rifle, and now have a .250-3000. The .257 and .250 loaded to the same pressures that the .243 is are at least as good as the .243, and likely better as hunting rifles. As a varmint rifle a 6 mm might be better, but for deer or pronghorn sized animals the .257 and .250-3000 are better IMHO.

My .250 will easily get 3000+ fps with 100 gr bullets, and a .257 should be able to beat that by some. As I remember the .257 I had could get 2900 fps with 117-120 gr bullets, and the .250 can get 2800 fps. I've got some RL-17 that I want to try in the .250 with 120's, and have high hopes. It might even work well with 100's.

Those are at pressures that are higher than +P pressures shown for the .257 in manuals, but even loaded to +P pressures they're lower than normal .243 pressures. Same rifles, the .25 cal brass takes the pressures without complaint, so why the lower pressures.

I'm sure that the nannies will have a fit over that last paragraph too. :D
 
The 25 Souper . . Yea

Jackie, I see this link is a little old, but "The answer to your question is "Yes" it has been done to the 25-08, it is the 25 Souper" . . and a D@&M good shooter is it too . . I have one and Love it. . .

I first built a 25-06 AI, on a 98' Vz24, I could not get that caliber to shoot, no matter what I did, it would not hit the same place twice on a 8.5x11" piece of paper. After months of messing with it I took it over to my GS friend one night and pulled the barrel off . . I said to him "I'm Trashing this piece of C _ _ P . . - order me a new barrel . . He said to hold on to my skivies . . let's see what we can make with this left over piece of barrel . . with some modifying we got the 25 Souper Reamer to "Just" make it. I had tried all of the bullets and powders through the AI, so I had a good collection of powders and bullets to start the new one with. I ordered a set of dies from RCBS, and away we went.

It took about 3 bullets and 4 powders for it to settle in with, but it finally did, and when it did, it will put 5 - 89 gr. Sierra bullets into one hole for as long as you want to shoot it . . at 3350 fps.. I hasve killed several nice deer with it, with one shot kills. I even took a Turkeys head off with it one afternoon at 96 yards, what is not to like about a rifle that shoots that good. . . ;) I had a 25-06 that I built back in the early 70's and shot the barrel off it, always wanted a 25AI, but not any more, this 25 Souper does more than fill the bill. Light on recoil, fast, and accurate. I even shot a pig with it one weekend, dropped him in his tracks, "Bullet Placement" . . !!

So the answer is . . it is a "great caliber" - especially with all the .308 brass laying around . . it doesn't seem to be case sensitive either, it likes it all. I am remote right now and don't have the loading info with me. I do know that it was a Shaw Barrel, 1:10 I believe, could check if you need that info.
 
While I was at Jarrett rifles in South Carolina one afternoon, Kenny discussed with Me and Ron Scelletta (sp), a .270 Woodswalker for his wife Lisa Jarrett. The Cartridge was a .270-08 with body taper and shoulder changed slightly. The cartridge was to be about as powerfull as factory loaded .270 Winchester, but in a short actioned model 7 rifle. Neat thought. That was 1991.

Paul
 
I've had one for years...

It was built around 1980 on a M-98 SR Mauser. This is a small, light rifle that has a 20" barrel. The only original parts on the gun are the receiver (much modified) and the bolt body. The gun only weighs about seven pounds complete with an aluminum bodied Kahles 6X scope.

This gun was covered in an article I wrote for Precision Shooting a couple of years ago. It has been Glorya's deer rifle and she has put many Whitetails in the freezer with same.

For Glorya we use 130 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded down to 2600 fps. This is a deadly load for short range deer hunting.

Dick Wright
 
One demerit regarding the issuance of a standardized 270-08 is the lack of target bullets for this caliber. Hunting bullets galore, sure, but unlike the .308 or .224, not really a line-up of target bullets.
 
Montana Pete said:
One demerit regarding the issuance of a standardized 270-08 is the lack of target bullets for this caliber. Hunting bullets galore, sure, but unlike the .308 or .224, not really a line-up of target bullets.
Click to expand...

The other problem is that the bullets jackets are built to work at speeds of the only two other factory .270 chamberings for years (.270 Win and .270 Whetherby Mag). building a slower .270 would result in hunting bullets not working well at further ranges. Minor problem for close range guys but major problem if you "just have to" make a long shot.

Paul
 
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