220 Russian

C

Cheechako

Guest
How many of you guys have ever seen a 220 Russian? I mean, a real one. Here's a box full of them, along with its grandmother and mother on the left.
2s0nxfs.jpg
 
Very interesting..!...who in the heck is shooting a .220 Russian cartridge that would encourage Lapua to make the brass?????
Is the .220 Russian more popular somewhere else in the world that Lapua sees it as a larger market than the 6ppc???
I really would like to know why Lapua makes a 22-250 case and a 260 Remington but NO 6ppc or 30BR cases...just beyond my comprehension...I wish someone could explain it realistically..!!!

Eddie in Texas
 
Eddie

I don't know if it still holds true, but the 5.6x39mm was a very popular target cartridge in Russia and Scandinavia in the 1950s and 1960s. We know that by the late 1950s the Soviets had necked down the 7.62x39mm to 5.6mm (actually .221 bullet diameter) and were using it in a steel cased cartridge for running deer competition. With Finland so near, and with the 7.62x39mm being the official Finnish military cartridge, it was no surprise that the 5.6x39mm cartridge was also manufactured and used in that country. Both Sako and Lapua began production of the 5.6x39mm brass cartridges around 1965 and when imported to the United States they were headstamped SAKO 220 RUSSIAN and LAPUA 5.6×39. The SAKO had a small primer pocket while the Lapua and the original Russian cases had large pockets. The Lapua was later changed to a small pocket with the new headstamp that we see today.

Maybe the biggest share of the 220 Russian market is still in Europe. I don't know. And maybe the biggest share of the US market for the Lapua brass in general is not Benchrest shooters as we would like to believe. We Benchrest shooters like to think the shooting world revolves around us, but it doesn't.

Ray
 
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eww1350 said:
I really would like to know why Lapua makes a 22-250 case and a 260 Remington but NO 6ppc or 30BR cases...just beyond my comprehension...I wish someone could explain it realistically..!!!

Eddie in Texas
Click to expand...
Making 220 Russian cases for the BR market is a nice little niche market for Lapua. They avoid all kinds of liability issues by only manufacturing the parent cases for PPC and 30BR. When one of us crazy Benchrest Shooters overloads our PPC and hurts ourself in some way our Lawyers have a harder time suing them since we were not using their product for it's intended purpose.
 
Dick,
That is why when you have a problem during modifying a 6BR case to 30BR, Lapua will not answer your E-mail. I have had 2 cases that were bad out of a Blue box.
john
Mims, Fl
 
Very neat Ray....! Is that 5.6x39 loaded with a hollow point..?? Really cool!
 
Most of the 5.6x39 Russian and Finnish cartridges that I have are loaded with FMJ bullets. I do have one Russian that has a round nose soft point.

ray
 
I know last year Lou M said this about the new brass
Norma

I don't post much but for this I will.
With a seated bullet it's about .2635
This brass is great
I,m buying 1000 piecesvfrom Bruno's He's the only place I can find it.
I think it's better that lapua.

here is the link it is post #5
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...6-P.P.C.-brass
 
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Ok here is the reason Lapua did not make 6PPC brass. We here at Kelbly's had asked Lapua to make the 220 Russian brass for us back in early 90's. At the time if you made 6PPC brass you had to pay royalty to Dr. Palmisano if you had 6PPC made and sold in USA. Also we feel that making the 6PPC brass out of 220 Russian brass that when formed to 6PPC, that the brass would not grow as fast as if it was made to 6PPC at the factory. We still believe this to be true.

As far as 220 Russian being used around the world, I do not know how much it was used, but the original 220 Russian brass brought here by Palmisano was made in the 60s for the russians to compete against the 223 or 222 in the Olympics. It was found to not be as accurate as the USA teams guns so they did not use it long. When Palmisano found the brass in Finland and came up with the PPC there was 500,000 pieces in inventory and it took till about late 80's to use it up. And that is when the PPC shortage started and why we approached Lapua to make the 220 Russian brass. Most of this story came straight out of the Lapua reloading manual Lapau had in early 90's.

Besides what else do br shooters have to do in the long winters, than form and make brass, it is such fun!!!!!!!

Jim
 
Jim - Wasn't the original Palmisano brass the SAKO 220 Russian? It had the small primer pocket. The Lapua had the large pocket and was headstamped 5.6x39.

Ray
 
Sako balloonhead.......... the head of the case pivoted to adjust to the boltface. For ten years at least "Sako brass was more accurate." :)

possiblydefectivememoriesby


al
 
Lt. to rt.:
-Sako 220R 'balloon head' case f-formed to 6PPC
-Norma 6PPC USA case, circa mid '90's
-Norma 6PPC USA case, current production
-Remington URBR 308 case (with a twist). This is what 22BR/6BR cases were made from 'in the day'.

c1-1.jpg


A look at the head stamps. The twist on the circa '77 Rem. URBR case is that it's stamped 22BR.

c2-1.jpg
 
Al - The URBR cases headstamped 22 BR REM are not that rare. I have several boxes of them. What is really rare are the Lapua cases headstamped LAPUA 6mm BR REM. But now we're getting off the subject. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'd have to dig thru my junk to see exactly how many, but there were quite a few different 220 cases made in Russia and Finland before the first SAKO brass showed up here.

A little side note - Way back in the 1960s there was a gun writer who wrote a magazine article on the relatively unknown 220 Russian. He concluded that it was a cute little cartridge but would never gain any popularity here in the US. I'll bet he still chokes every time he thinks about that little bit of prophecy.

Ray
 
James A. Kelbly said:
Ok here is the reason Lapua did not make 6PPC brass. We here at Kelbly's had asked Lapua to make the 220 Russian brass for us back in early 90's. At the time if you made 6PPC brass you had to pay royalty to Dr. Palmisano if you had 6PPC made and sold in USA. Also we feel that making the 6PPC brass out of 220 Russian brass that when formed to 6PPC, that the brass would not grow as fast as if it was made to 6PPC at the factory. We still believe this to be true.

As far as 220 Russian being used around the world, I do not know how much it was used, but the original 220 Russian brass brought here by Palmisano was made in the 60s for the russians to compete against the 223 or 222 in the Olympics. It was found to not be as accurate as the USA teams guns so they did not use it long. When Palmisano found the brass in Finland and came up with the PPC there was 500,000 pieces in inventory and it took till about late 80's to use it up. And that is when the PPC shortage started and why we approached Lapua to make the 220 Russian brass. Most of this story came straight out of the Lapua reloading manual Lapau had in early 90's.

Besides what else do br shooters have to do in the long winters, than form and make brass, it is such fun!!!!!!!

Jim
Click to expand...

And there you have it straight from the Horse's mouth. We should get this post put in the FAQ's section since it comes up about 6 times a year.

Dick
 
James A. Kelbly said:
As far as 220 Russian being used around the world, I do not know how much it was used, but the original 220 Russian brass brought here by Palmisano was made in the 60s for the russians to compete against the 223 or 222 in the Olympics.
Click to expand...

I think I vaguely remember a story that the .220 Russian showed up at some competition in Cairo, ca. 1962.
 
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