210M primers

R

Rflshootr

Member
I just recently picked up 5K 210M's in the old gold packaging labeled "Bench Rest" as opposed to the new Gold Metal Match packaging.
Were these primers any milder/ less hot then the newer 210M's? I'm having a problem with a new Remington 243 Win rifle with an 8 twist and a fairly long throat. Shooting 95 Berger VLD's and StaBall 6.5. At Hodgdon's max load of 42.8 grains, I'm getting heavy sooting on the neck and shoulder. Primers are still rounded with no pressure signs or heavy bolt lift. I'm wondering if it's that the primers are mild, the long throat, or a slow lot of powder. With this being the 1st usage of this old lot of primers, I'm wondering if anyone remembers if the older Bench Rest 210M's were a milder primer or pretty much the same as the newer Gold Metal Match.
 
Can't help you out on the primer thing but one caution that I would tell you is in my usage of StaBal 6.5 is that it spikes real fast. One grain can take you from a seemingly safe load to a blown primer . Happened to me.
 
No. I was doing load development from 41.0 to 42.8 in .5 grain increments. I haven't gotten to the point of a chrono. yet. These were the 1st loadings of that powder/bullet/primer combo.
 
I would keep a close eye on the velocity and what Hodgdon gets. Smoked necks and shoulders can be from low pressure but can also be from other things like necks and shoulders that need annelling or cases that hardened up. JMO
 
ii would tend to agree that sooty bore and necks is a powder issue, but you do not have the same rifle they tested, so without a chrono you are just guessing. with bullet weigh and velocity you can do some intelligent guessing on pressure while looking at other indicators. i have been told some of their powders are clones of accurate powders...do you know which is a match ?? and .5 is too big of a step for the case. i would do .3 or even .2 if you have a scale that is better than 0.1
 
I have read the AA2700 is very close to WW760/H414 but never read of a clone for the StaBal 6.5. I agree with you that small steps are called for especially with 6.5.
 
I also sent a note to Berger since it's their bullet. Hodgdon's data is with a Nosler 95 Partition which is a flat base and I'm almost certain that it has a longer bearing surface than the 95 VLD. I explained what was going on and I asked them to run some data for me to compare to Hodgdon's data. I'll have to wait for a response from them to see if they come up with something different. If I don't hear anything by next weekend, I'll load a few rounds with the Gold Metal Match primer, a WLR and a WLRM and see if there is any difference.
 
IT AINT THE PRIMER. IT IS MOST LIKELY A POOR POWDER CHOICE. what is your case volume, what is your bbl length ? extremely low pressure poor powder burn and thus carbon from unburned /poor burned powder. pick a better powder. give up on that powder find a common use powder for a jackets 95 not a partition
 
The brass is 243 Winchester, Sierra branded which they told me was most likely made by Lake City. It's very heavy compared to other brands, so I can believe that.
It weighs 184 grains as compared to the Lapua I have on hand which is 172 grains. By my method, it holds 52 grains of water which is on par with 6.5 Creedmoor brass. The barrel is a Remington factory 24" with 5R rifling and an 8 Twist. StaBall 6.5 was designed for the 6.5 Creedmoor. I've shot Re-19 out of this rifle with the same bullet without a problem. Re-19 is right next to Staball 6.5 on the relative burn rate chart. It is a ball powder which makes me think that it may need a hotter primer.
I'm not disagreeing with you that it might not be the right choice, but I'd like to know why it isn't since many people use RE-19 and H4831 which is even slower. Nosler even has data for their 95/100 grain bullet with H1000 which is a waaay slower powder. Like I said, you might be right that it isn't the right powder, but I'd like to know your thought process as to why.
In the meantime, I'm going to anneal the brass, that now has 4 firings on it, and load 3 more rounds as a test to rule work hardening out. Even if that is the case, it still doesn't explain why the primers still have some roundness to them and that there are no high pressure signs.
 
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I would think that your safest route to take would be to get your velocity #'s and see how they compare to Hodgdon. If they are close then be careful going up or changing primers without reducing the load a little, .If they are significantly less then work up in small steps. JMO
 
I just got data from Berger. They said,
" This is a situation where the differences in a given bullet design will call for different load data and you will see where our data developed for use with both our 95gr VLD & 95gr Classic Hunter bullets is totally different than the data that our friends at Nosler developed for use with their bullets."
Berger's data for Staball is a starting load of 42.0 and a Max of 46.2 grains with WW brass.
Hodgdon's Max load with WW brass and the Nosler 95 Partition is 42.8 grains. Big difference.
Thanks for the thoughts.
 
So, what would be your choice of powder(s)?
Please tell me why you think StaBall 6.5 isn't a good choice.
 
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According to Hodgdon's data center you would think that StaBal 6.5 would be great in the 243. I would just work up slow using a chrony. Might come to great results. JMO
 
Rflshootr said:
So, what would be your choice of powder(s)?
Please tell me why you think StaBall 6.5 isn't a good choice.
Click to expand...
because YOU listed a max load and YOU had soot.....the problem with working without a chrono. had you used a chrono you would have recognized the issue right away...you early load with that bullet said low pressure...poor burn low velocity,,,IF it was a max load it was no good.
 
WOW! That's very scientific of you. The reason you don't answer my question directly, is because you have nothing to back up your statement about changing powder and probably have never even used StaBall powder or even a slight inkling of a recommendation. The max load data I posted was from Hodgdon, not mine. Had I used a chrono, yes, I would have probably seen low velocity, but that still would not have answered the question of why, like Berger did. Now that I have that information, StaBall is a very viable powder choice, regardless of what you may think and know nothing about. My original question was about the primers, not the powder. When you handload, you don't just go willy nilly, in any direction without something to back it up. That's how people get hurt. YOU obviously don't read and comprehend very well and just made my iggy list, Sir.
 
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