B
biltmore
Guest
i have a model 52 made in 1931 with an eric johnson barrel it is a single shot s/n 19004.it has a 12x j unertl scope.some one told me harry harkin shot it in 1932/36 olympics.any info well great
Butch Lambert
Active member
Check with Russ Haydon at Haydons Shooters Supply or James Pappas on the rimfire forum.
Butch
Butch
Biltmore....
Howdy,
I think I talked to the guy who had that on gunbroker a while back. I seem to recall his name was Joel, but I could be wrong. My curiosity has been up about that rifle for a while.
How does it shoot, at what distance, with what ammo?
Johnson was a legend in his own lifetime for his barrels. If properly cared for, I would think it would be extremely accurate.
At some point in time, Johnson started numbering his barrels on the underside. I don't think he was doing it in 1932-1936 though. I have one rifle from 1933, I am certain of the year, and it has no serial number on the barrel. I have another that may or may not be from 1935, he only made 7 of that type in 1935, and it does not have a serial number on the barrel. That one in particular I wish had a barrel serial number so I could find out who once owned it.
I tried to find out about the Olympic story while that rifle was for sale. I am not saying the guy who had it was incorrect, I just could not figure out how to find the names of the guys on the team for those years.
If I would not have been broke at the time, I would have tried to have bought it. It has been several months since I saw it for sale. I am still broke.
Johnson built rifles that would shoot, feed it the good stuff. I know that he sent rifles to the Olympics later on in his career, I just don't know about that one.
I hope you enjoy it!
Greg
Howdy,
I think I talked to the guy who had that on gunbroker a while back. I seem to recall his name was Joel, but I could be wrong. My curiosity has been up about that rifle for a while.
How does it shoot, at what distance, with what ammo?
Johnson was a legend in his own lifetime for his barrels. If properly cared for, I would think it would be extremely accurate.
At some point in time, Johnson started numbering his barrels on the underside. I don't think he was doing it in 1932-1936 though. I have one rifle from 1933, I am certain of the year, and it has no serial number on the barrel. I have another that may or may not be from 1935, he only made 7 of that type in 1935, and it does not have a serial number on the barrel. That one in particular I wish had a barrel serial number so I could find out who once owned it.
I tried to find out about the Olympic story while that rifle was for sale. I am not saying the guy who had it was incorrect, I just could not figure out how to find the names of the guys on the team for those years.
If I would not have been broke at the time, I would have tried to have bought it. It has been several months since I saw it for sale. I am still broke.
Johnson built rifles that would shoot, feed it the good stuff. I know that he sent rifles to the Olympics later on in his career, I just don't know about that one.
I hope you enjoy it!
Greg
B
BrianJ
Guest
I don't find that name listed in the 1932 Olympics.
bjm
bjm
BrianJ
Howdy Brian,
I rooted around in the 1932 American Rifleman, and came up blank. Matter of fact, from what I recall, 1932 was a bit "thin" to say the least, for smallbore in the Olympics. I have nothing from 1936. The guy I spoke with about that rifle months ago said he was merely repeating what he had been told when he bought the rifle.
I am ignorant on such things, but I have never heard of the name Harry Harkin. It was an interesting looking rifle though!
Greg
Howdy Brian,
I rooted around in the 1932 American Rifleman, and came up blank. Matter of fact, from what I recall, 1932 was a bit "thin" to say the least, for smallbore in the Olympics. I have nothing from 1936. The guy I spoke with about that rifle months ago said he was merely repeating what he had been told when he bought the rifle.
I am ignorant on such things, but I have never heard of the name Harry Harkin. It was an interesting looking rifle though!
Greg
pbike
New member
Is it a Value of the rifle that you are seeking?
If you are in fact looking for a value for that rifle this may help, it may not....
I've had a lot of time lately to watch evening television and I get a kick out of a show call "Pawn Stars". Of course there is always a story behind every sale and yours definately has one. Any way what I have figured is that if you were to go to the Pawn Shop in Las Vegas and talk to Rick about your rifle and its history, and mention that you'ld be interested in selling it, (don't let Chummly touch it, he's a clutz) he would get his "Profesional" into the store to "Value" the rifle. This profesional will give you a conservative Value based on his knowledge, then Rick will offer about Half of that (Pops will offer even less). Take Rick's offer and multiply by 3 and that is pretty close to true Value of your rifle.
Hope that helped, if not oh well.
I tried.
Paul
If you are in fact looking for a value for that rifle this may help, it may not....
I've had a lot of time lately to watch evening television and I get a kick out of a show call "Pawn Stars". Of course there is always a story behind every sale and yours definately has one. Any way what I have figured is that if you were to go to the Pawn Shop in Las Vegas and talk to Rick about your rifle and its history, and mention that you'ld be interested in selling it, (don't let Chummly touch it, he's a clutz) he would get his "Profesional" into the store to "Value" the rifle. This profesional will give you a conservative Value based on his knowledge, then Rick will offer about Half of that (Pops will offer even less). Take Rick's offer and multiply by 3 and that is pretty close to true Value of your rifle.
Hope that helped, if not oh well.
I tried.
Paul
B
biltmore
Guest
do you know anything about eric johnson barrel"s there s no letter to tell me if its a b c d.also can yoy tell me how to sight in an unertl scope thank you
B
biltmore
Guest
thank you Greg i did trade for it to a guy name joel it shoots real good with with so,so bullets .what do you shoot?
do you know anything about the j unertl scopes
do you know anything about the j unertl scopes
B
BrianJ
Guest
Greg,
The book I have listed our team in 1932 and that name did not show up. The 1936 games only listed some winners and not the team members.
If there is no letter suffix its a pre-A
bjm
The book I have listed our team in 1932 and that name did not show up. The 1936 games only listed some winners and not the team members.
If there is no letter suffix its a pre-A
bjm
Last edited by a moderator:
biltmore.....
Howdy,
What BrianJ posted about the action not having a suffix, then it is a pre-A, is correct. For the record, the more you hang out in this forum, you will find that if BrianJ says something, it is pretty much guaranteed to be correct. His knowledge, epecially about the classic rimfire rifles, is amazing. He is a genuine, all around nice guy. Not enough of those out there anymore, sadly.
I don't know a lot about a lot, but I do know a little about a little. I am trying to learn, and this is a good place to learn.
I remember the photographs of your rifle. I thought I still had them saved from gunbroker, but apparently they are too old and gunbroker no longer has them, I should have printed it off. You definitely have a pre-A Winchester 52. The custom stock is a nice one. The problem that sometimes occurred with the action that you have is that the locking luck recess on the left side would crack. It is thin there, in front of the safety. Joel had been told, and had posted it in the ad, that the reciever had been repaired. I had never seen that before, and it looked like a clever, effective, and more importantly, safe repair. I don't know if Eric Johnson did it or not, and I guess there is no way to find out.
The J. Unertl scope is a great, classic scope. They are quite desirable, and they can get kind of pricey. Especially on ebay. As I understand it, John Unertl used to work for a man named J.W. Fecker, whose company also made great, classic scopes. Unertl eventually went off on his own. I can't remember for certain, but I think your scope was between 8 and 12 power. I don't know enough about Unertl scopes, if you post some pictures here, someone will be able to tell you more about it. For some reason, I seem to remember that the vintage of the scope would have been a bit later than the rifle. I am going to guess that the glass on that scope is remarkably good. I have only had one Unertl scope, and I liked it a lot.
The scope should have 1/4 minute click adjustments on it. The spacing on the scope blocks on the barrel should measure about 7.2 inches apart, center to center. That is supposed to give 1/4 minute adjustments. Different spacing of the bases will give different amounts of adjustments per click. There used to be charts available to get that information. So, a one click adjustment will move the bullet impact 1/4 inch at 100 yards. 1/8 inch at 50 yards. You can adjust the focus by turning the ring in front of the scope. It is a precise piece of equipment.
Eric Johnson was a legend in his own lifetime for his barrels. I know I said that before, but it is worth repeating. He eventually put 5 stars and the number 8 on the barrel. The 8 indicated 8 groove rifling. The 5 stars was just marketing. He always made his barrels the best he could, regardless of the stamps on them. Discriminating shooters still look for rifles with his barrels on them. They flat out shoot great, according to all I have read about them. The closest thing that I would have to your Winchester that I have shot is a Remington 37. Using Eley practice ammo, that was all I could get at the time, I was quickly getting 1/4 inch and better groups at 50 yards. I have only got to play with it a couple of times. The best group was .11 at 50 yards.
Nope, I ain't going to say I can do that all day long. I had a very quiet, practically wind free evening when I shot it. It also has a custom Canjar trigger with a light pull, and that helps.
I need to get the chance to take it out with a bunch of different types of ammo and find what it will do consistantly.
Just guessing, based on the vintage that your rifle appears to be, I am going to say you probably have a 3 pound trigger, that was what the rules used to require at matches. I could be wrong though. But it looked like a factory trigger.
Johnson barrels, like any barrel, will show a preference for some ammo. I have read that they shoot good with a variety of different types of ammo. The only way to find out, is to get a bunch of different types of target ammo and try it. Shoot sub-sonic target ammo.
Your rifle was built by a legend. I can't verify the details of the story that was told to Joel. But I called him about that rifle, and I believe that he believed what he was told.
Regardless of the story, it was probably rebarreled in the late 1920's, more likely early 1930's, and is a functional piece of smallbore history that I would have loved to have bought, had I not been broke. The last price that I saw Joel have on it was quite reasonable, especially since that scope would sell in the $700-$800 range on ebay. Maybe more. I hate being broke! I hope the economy picks up for everyone.
I hope you enjoy your rifle. There are a lot of collectors out there who only want a vintage rifle in the condition that it left the factory. There are also collectors who appreciate the craftmanship that went into improving a target rifle, as long as it was done by someone who knew what they were doing. Eric Johnson knew what he was doing.
By the way, he was the 1926 gallery indoor champion. And the 1929 smallbore prone champion at the National Matches at Camp Perry. He retired in 1965 at age 78. There is
more information on this website if you use the search function and type in "Eric Johnson". There was a recent format change and I don't know how much information made the transition.
Hope that helps some!
Greg
P.S. Don't let that rifle sit in a safe, shoot it and enjoy it!
Howdy,
What BrianJ posted about the action not having a suffix, then it is a pre-A, is correct. For the record, the more you hang out in this forum, you will find that if BrianJ says something, it is pretty much guaranteed to be correct. His knowledge, epecially about the classic rimfire rifles, is amazing. He is a genuine, all around nice guy. Not enough of those out there anymore, sadly.
I don't know a lot about a lot, but I do know a little about a little. I am trying to learn, and this is a good place to learn.
I remember the photographs of your rifle. I thought I still had them saved from gunbroker, but apparently they are too old and gunbroker no longer has them, I should have printed it off. You definitely have a pre-A Winchester 52. The custom stock is a nice one. The problem that sometimes occurred with the action that you have is that the locking luck recess on the left side would crack. It is thin there, in front of the safety. Joel had been told, and had posted it in the ad, that the reciever had been repaired. I had never seen that before, and it looked like a clever, effective, and more importantly, safe repair. I don't know if Eric Johnson did it or not, and I guess there is no way to find out.
The J. Unertl scope is a great, classic scope. They are quite desirable, and they can get kind of pricey. Especially on ebay. As I understand it, John Unertl used to work for a man named J.W. Fecker, whose company also made great, classic scopes. Unertl eventually went off on his own. I can't remember for certain, but I think your scope was between 8 and 12 power. I don't know enough about Unertl scopes, if you post some pictures here, someone will be able to tell you more about it. For some reason, I seem to remember that the vintage of the scope would have been a bit later than the rifle. I am going to guess that the glass on that scope is remarkably good. I have only had one Unertl scope, and I liked it a lot.
The scope should have 1/4 minute click adjustments on it. The spacing on the scope blocks on the barrel should measure about 7.2 inches apart, center to center. That is supposed to give 1/4 minute adjustments. Different spacing of the bases will give different amounts of adjustments per click. There used to be charts available to get that information. So, a one click adjustment will move the bullet impact 1/4 inch at 100 yards. 1/8 inch at 50 yards. You can adjust the focus by turning the ring in front of the scope. It is a precise piece of equipment.
Eric Johnson was a legend in his own lifetime for his barrels. I know I said that before, but it is worth repeating. He eventually put 5 stars and the number 8 on the barrel. The 8 indicated 8 groove rifling. The 5 stars was just marketing. He always made his barrels the best he could, regardless of the stamps on them. Discriminating shooters still look for rifles with his barrels on them. They flat out shoot great, according to all I have read about them. The closest thing that I would have to your Winchester that I have shot is a Remington 37. Using Eley practice ammo, that was all I could get at the time, I was quickly getting 1/4 inch and better groups at 50 yards. I have only got to play with it a couple of times. The best group was .11 at 50 yards.
Nope, I ain't going to say I can do that all day long. I had a very quiet, practically wind free evening when I shot it. It also has a custom Canjar trigger with a light pull, and that helps.
I need to get the chance to take it out with a bunch of different types of ammo and find what it will do consistantly.
Just guessing, based on the vintage that your rifle appears to be, I am going to say you probably have a 3 pound trigger, that was what the rules used to require at matches. I could be wrong though. But it looked like a factory trigger.
Johnson barrels, like any barrel, will show a preference for some ammo. I have read that they shoot good with a variety of different types of ammo. The only way to find out, is to get a bunch of different types of target ammo and try it. Shoot sub-sonic target ammo.
Your rifle was built by a legend. I can't verify the details of the story that was told to Joel. But I called him about that rifle, and I believe that he believed what he was told.
Regardless of the story, it was probably rebarreled in the late 1920's, more likely early 1930's, and is a functional piece of smallbore history that I would have loved to have bought, had I not been broke. The last price that I saw Joel have on it was quite reasonable, especially since that scope would sell in the $700-$800 range on ebay. Maybe more. I hate being broke! I hope the economy picks up for everyone.
I hope you enjoy your rifle. There are a lot of collectors out there who only want a vintage rifle in the condition that it left the factory. There are also collectors who appreciate the craftmanship that went into improving a target rifle, as long as it was done by someone who knew what they were doing. Eric Johnson knew what he was doing.
By the way, he was the 1926 gallery indoor champion. And the 1929 smallbore prone champion at the National Matches at Camp Perry. He retired in 1965 at age 78. There is
more information on this website if you use the search function and type in "Eric Johnson". There was a recent format change and I don't know how much information made the transition.
Hope that helps some!
Greg
P.S. Don't let that rifle sit in a safe, shoot it and enjoy it!
M
mararms
Guest
Would it interest anybody to know that this same Model 52, SN 19004, is once again for sale? It came into my shop on consignment from the widow of the previous owner, I'm guessing the same person who started this thread. Anybody happen to know a fair asking price? Anybody care to make an offer?
Last edited by a moderator:
Butch Lambert
Active member
Sir,
You will have to have good photos available and contact info. I see that you are not set up for PMs either. My email is in my profile.
Last edited:
C
CMaier
Guest
may i suggest you try RIMFIRE CENTRAL
winchester forum
winchester forum
M
mararms
Guest
Email has been sent to Butch. Another sent to 404tbang, just to see if he's still broke.
Last edited by a moderator:
Butch Lambert
Active member
Photos show it not to be original.