why are 6's so touchy???

[trigger happy]

so here's my question ive gotten many differant from a few differant people. why is (6 caliber) rifle so touchy to weather temp and humidity changes???? so whats your answer and how do you compensate for all the variables that shadow a 6. ive also had someone tell me that for every 5 degrees over an 80 degree temp u need to dope .3 grains of powder stuff like this confuses me sometime. so any and all answer will be usefull and im shore interesting

 

[jackie schmidt]

Don't Fool Yourself As Others Do

Trigger, I have to ask.

Are you under the impression that other calibers are less touchy? When it comes to the type of precision and accuracy that it takes to be at the top of any Benchrest Discipline, they are ALL finiky.

I shoot both a 6mm and a 30, (and a 25BR in the past), and have done well with both, in group and score. In my opinion, keeping either shooting at a sub.200 level is equally difficult.

Now, keep in mind, I said SUB .200 level.

In short, I don't think a 6mm, (I assume you mean a 6PPC), is any more difficult to keep shooting at a championship level than a 22, a 25, a 6.5, a 30, etc.

Here is something to ponder. Many shooters get lulled into thinking that certain calibers, say a 30, are easy to tune because they can do the job in a certain venue. A shooter hits a 250 20x and, let's say he wins a match. When you examine his targets, you notice two of the 10's just barelly kissed the 10 ring. Now, that 10 is just as much of a ten as one that would have almost kissed the X. But, if you measure that shot from the center of the other four shots on the target, what the group would have been was a big ole "four".

Reality sets in when the shooter finally gets in a group match, and nails a .320 agg, and wonders what the heck is going on.

I saw this on quite a few targets that were shot at our Club Match this past week end. For that matter, I see it all the time. Even the winner, Vic Smith, (he won't mind me saying this), admitts that his Rifle was not up to standard, he did a great job with the conditions, which were pretty tough, and avoided the "9" that killed a couple other shooters chances. But he will admitt to anyone that he had at least 2, maybe more, shots that would have destroyed an agg in a Group Match.

I believe that there are several chamberings that have the inherant accuracy to compete at that recognized "sub.200" level. The 222, the 22 6PPC short, the 6PPC, the 6 BR .100 short, the 30 BR, and a few more. None has a magical grip on that illusive ability to stay in tune through the entire week end with no changes. That is, if your standard is that ".sub .200 agging capability".

I suggest you read some of the excellent writings by Jack Neary. While he primarilly is concerned with keeping a 6PPC and 133 shooting over the entire aggregate, what he says holds true for any extreme accuracy chambering......jackie

 

[alinwa]

Wow..... I'm wit' Jackie

good answer

al

 

[Vern]

I think what most surprised me was that you listed the .222 in there. I thought you considered it long gone as far as today's competition.
How competitive is it Jackie.

I was also under the disillusion that the 30BR was the easiest to tune and keep in tune. So much so that back 5 years ago everyone was talking about going to the matches preloaded.

Glad I got that one straightened out, that was the biggest reason I was going to get a 30 next year. The second reason was that somehow I thought/think it is less affected by the wind than 6's or 22's..

I was also considering another 22ppc short but if the 222 will do the same job why should I bother? Or should I?

Come on Jackie shake me up a little here and bust some more of these carbonated bubbles I have floating around in my head.

 

[alinwa]

I ain't Jackie BUT..... BC=BC=BC whether the bullet is a .177 cailber or a 50cal and BC dictates how it goes in the wind. Thirties are affected almost exactly like 6's in the wind.

I personally will vote for the 22PPC over the 222 because it's easier to maintain accurate cases.

al

 

[Vern]

Al elaborate on the 222 vs 22ppc please cases and otherwise

 

[alinwa]

Understand that this is just me speaking...... there are a lot of people who'll disagree with me.

I think that to maintain agg'ing capacity you must first MAKE good cases and then MAINTAIN good case fit. One example of not doing this would be when one is set up such that you "bump shoulders" one firing and FL resize the next and then anneal and then ....????

see what I mean?

All I'm saying is that I try to make each and every shot identical as far as cases go and I feel that the 222 cases are a little long and skinny. Prone to banana and prone to grow. Hard to resize precisely.

al

 

[JD Mock]

Asking why 6's are touchy is akin to asking why Nascar's Sprint Cup series cars are so touchy. Much is expected of these cars and likewise much is expected of the 6PPC if one is to compete in today's matches. Good shooting...James

 

[TedH]

I don't think they are.

 

[333smitty]

Sub .200 level

Trigger, I have to ask.

Are you under the impression that other calibers are less touchy? When it comes to the type of precision and accuracy that it takes to be at the top of any Benchrest Discipline, they are ALL finiky.

I shoot both a 6mm and a 30, (and a 25BR in the past), and have done well with both, in group and score. In my opinion, keeping either shooting at a sub.200 level is equally difficult.

Now, keep in mind, I said SUB .200 level.

In short, I don't think a 6mm, (I assume you mean a 6PPC), is any more difficult to keep shooting at a championship level than a 22, a 25, a 6.5, a 30, etc.

Here is something to ponder. Many shooters get lulled into thinking that certain calibers, say a 30, are easy to tune because they can do the job in a certain venue. A shooter hits a 250 20x and, let's say he wins a match. When you examine his targets, you notice two of the 10's just barelly kissed the 10 ring. Now, that 10 is just as much of a ten as one that would have almost kissed the X. But, if you measure that shot from the center of the other four shots on the target, what the group would have been was a big ole "four".

Reality sets in when the shooter finally gets in a group match, and nails a .320 agg, and wonders what the heck is going on.

I saw this on quite a few targets that were shot at our Club Match this past week end. For that matter, I see it all the time. Even the winner, Vic Smith, (he won't mind me saying this), admitts that his Rifle was not up to standard, he did a great job with the conditions, which were pretty tough, and avoided the "9" that killed a couple other shooters chances. But he will admitt to anyone that he had at least 2, maybe more, shots that would have destroyed an agg in a Group Match.

I believe that there are several chamberings that have the inherant accuracy to compete at that recognized "sub.200" level. The 222, the 22 6PPC short, the 6PPC, the 6 BR .100 short, the 30 BR, and a few more. None has a magical grip on that illusive ability to stay in tune through the entire week end with no changes. That is, if your standard is that ".sub .200 agging capability".

I suggest you read some of the excellent writings by Jack Neary. While he primarilly is concerned with keeping a 6PPC and 133 shooting over the entire aggregate, what he says holds true for any extreme accuracy chambering......jackie

Well said Jackie. My 30BR was capable of shooting .160 .190 groups a while back until I purchased a new lot of bullets. Now its locked into .250+ groups. I've tried changing, powder charges, neck tension, seating depth, and adjusting the tuner to no avail as of yet but I will keep trying get my 30 up to speed. I'm still getting a errant shot or two during the agg and my luck will run out sooner or later. If I don't get this problem fixed Mr 9 will rear his ugly head. Again. =)

I was really surprised that 19x held up for the top spot considering the talent that competes at our club matches. Typically a 19x score will garner you a 4th, 5th, or 6th place finish.