H
hecksf
Guest
Who as actually won big matches using powder from prepackaged vials??
Ted
Ted
J
J Conley
Guest
Two of Denton’s regional’s were won this year using packaged vials..
jackie schmidt
New member
Ditto on Costa
I wonder if he is still doing it??............jackie
I wonder if he is still doing it??............jackie
H
hecksf
Guest
Hey
Thanks those were good answers.
Thanks those were good answers.
C
Cheechako
Guest
A good question would be, does it make any difference? Those guys are good shooters and probably would have won anyway. Have they done unbiased tests to see if the pre-weighed charges are better?
I'd have the same question regarding ammo loaded at home. I know shooters who had 200 or more cases and loaded them all at home. They won their fair share of fake wood but was it because they loaded at home or because they were good shooters?
Ray
I'd have the same question regarding ammo loaded at home. I know shooters who had 200 or more cases and loaded them all at home. They won their fair share of fake wood but was it because they loaded at home or because they were good shooters?
Ray
jackie schmidt
New member
Ray
I respectfully disagree. I have seen many well known shooters lanquish around in the middle of the pack simply because they couldn't get the Rifle working. Or, be going along pretty good, loose the tune, and end up sitting in the cheap seats............jackie
I respectfully disagree. I have seen many well known shooters lanquish around in the middle of the pack simply because they couldn't get the Rifle working. Or, be going along pretty good, loose the tune, and end up sitting in the cheap seats............jackie
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Cheechako
Guest
I really don't get your point. I didn't say that pre-measured charges or loading at home does or does not work. I was asking if it has been proven either way?
Ray
jackie schmidt
New member
Mark
It's all about tuning. Talk to any of them, and they will say, "lost the tune".
Of course, from what you read, (sometimes), on these Forums, it is simply a matter of knowing exactly what weather condition, (ie, temperature, AD, humidity, etc), your Rifle and load combination likes and adjusting accordingly.
Of course, in the real world it isn't that simple. If it was, shooters wouldn't spend so time chasing the tune.
In the past years, I have always said that this game is about Bullets, Barrels, and Tuning. I have not seen anything as of late to change this...............jackie
It's all about tuning. Talk to any of them, and they will say, "lost the tune".
Of course, from what you read, (sometimes), on these Forums, it is simply a matter of knowing exactly what weather condition, (ie, temperature, AD, humidity, etc), your Rifle and load combination likes and adjusting accordingly.
Of course, in the real world it isn't that simple. If it was, shooters wouldn't spend so time chasing the tune.
In the past years, I have always said that this game is about Bullets, Barrels, and Tuning. I have not seen anything as of late to change this...............jackie
jackie schmidt
New member
Ray
My answer does seem a little strange, now that I have re-read your post. I guess what I am trying to emphasize is the reason these shooters DO weigh charges is because they feel that their performance is proof, (to themselves), that it does make a difference.
Many believe that the tune can be as criticle as .1 grn difference. You have to weigh to achieve that level of accuracy.
Of course, actually proving this in some sort of controled test would require a lot of time and effort.
..........jackie
My answer does seem a little strange, now that I have re-read your post. I guess what I am trying to emphasize is the reason these shooters DO weigh charges is because they feel that their performance is proof, (to themselves), that it does make a difference.
Many believe that the tune can be as criticle as .1 grn difference. You have to weigh to achieve that level of accuracy.
Of course, actually proving this in some sort of controled test would require a lot of time and effort.
..........jackie
Guys,
Jackie certainly doesn't need any help with this response but perhaps I can shine a light on the subject from a slightly different angle. If one had a real good 30-06 hunting rifle let's say one that shot 1/2" with a select batch of components. One could preload those components and shoot 1/2" or there abouts with that rifle in all different temps and altitudes for probably the next 20 years or as long as the loaded ammo lasted.Does weighing charges and preloading at home work? In this instance,absolutely!
As BR competitors a tune that is shooting flat .200s in good conditions is "working" . A tune that is shooting.150's is "really working" and a tune that is shooting .240's ain't worth a damn.This elusive tune is not velocity specific or weight of powder specific and what is "working" this morning may not be working this afternoon or tomorrow. One needs to be aware of this changing tune,needs to recognize changes in how his gun is performing and needs to change powder weight,seating depth,neck tension to get the most out of the present environment. In some instances completely changing brands of powder( from 133 to 8208 for instance)is what is needed to get the gun stickin' 'em again.
If there is an advantage to preweighing,it is the extra time it gives a competitor at a match to watch the range and to develop his timeing strategy for his upcoming relay.
Joel
Jackie certainly doesn't need any help with this response but perhaps I can shine a light on the subject from a slightly different angle. If one had a real good 30-06 hunting rifle let's say one that shot 1/2" with a select batch of components. One could preload those components and shoot 1/2" or there abouts with that rifle in all different temps and altitudes for probably the next 20 years or as long as the loaded ammo lasted.Does weighing charges and preloading at home work? In this instance,absolutely!
As BR competitors a tune that is shooting flat .200s in good conditions is "working" . A tune that is shooting.150's is "really working" and a tune that is shooting .240's ain't worth a damn.This elusive tune is not velocity specific or weight of powder specific and what is "working" this morning may not be working this afternoon or tomorrow. One needs to be aware of this changing tune,needs to recognize changes in how his gun is performing and needs to change powder weight,seating depth,neck tension to get the most out of the present environment. In some instances completely changing brands of powder( from 133 to 8208 for instance)is what is needed to get the gun stickin' 'em again.
If there is an advantage to preweighing,it is the extra time it gives a competitor at a match to watch the range and to develop his timeing strategy for his upcoming relay.
Joel
R
Russ Hardy
Guest
Jackie,
Now that you have the scale, please try this for me. I swear that my guns can be tuned within a .3gr swing in powder charge. That is why I like the pre measured vials. I just sit down with my scale and throw powder into the pan. I put the pan on the scale and then put the charge in the weight category it falls into. NO TRICKELING. I will end up with segregated accurate powder charges. Now I can go to the line and shoot 29.2, 29.4, 29.6 and without any guessing as to what the tune will be just shoot the damn things and see what works. It has been quite liberating to quit trying to guess the tune and just let the groups tell me what it is. Untill I could get the powder charges measured and segregated accurately I was never able to see how much .2 gr could matter. I have had the good luck to have some good barrels and bullets that help alot when trying to see what is going on. A scope that stays put sure has brought most of this to light.
Now that you have the scale, please try this for me. I swear that my guns can be tuned within a .3gr swing in powder charge. That is why I like the pre measured vials. I just sit down with my scale and throw powder into the pan. I put the pan on the scale and then put the charge in the weight category it falls into. NO TRICKELING. I will end up with segregated accurate powder charges. Now I can go to the line and shoot 29.2, 29.4, 29.6 and without any guessing as to what the tune will be just shoot the damn things and see what works. It has been quite liberating to quit trying to guess the tune and just let the groups tell me what it is. Untill I could get the powder charges measured and segregated accurately I was never able to see how much .2 gr could matter. I have had the good luck to have some good barrels and bullets that help alot when trying to see what is going on. A scope that stays put sure has brought most of this to light.
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C
caroby
Guest
Fantastic thread........!
Thinking real hard about ordering vials... Getting a real solid ACCURATE .01 capable scale and Testing more for myself.
Still, I'll always bring my measure to matches in case I fall off tunes ville with preload ranges I happen to have........
cale
Thinking real hard about ordering vials... Getting a real solid ACCURATE .01 capable scale and Testing more for myself.
Still, I'll always bring my measure to matches in case I fall off tunes ville with preload ranges I happen to have........
cale
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I have a big box of them
I think I remember buying them from a medical supply place but there are other sources I am sure.
Since I load mostly at home, I have used mine very little. An issue with mine is the lids screw on and WILL come loose on ya. I have had the happen a couple of times. A 20 ga shell box is a nice container for them. they fit in it exactly and with some foam in the lid, the covers shouldn't be an issue.
Since I got my Chargemaster, I just carry that with me now.
I think I remember buying them from a medical supply place but there are other sources I am sure.
Since I load mostly at home, I have used mine very little. An issue with mine is the lids screw on and WILL come loose on ya. I have had the happen a couple of times. A 20 ga shell box is a nice container for them. they fit in it exactly and with some foam in the lid, the covers shouldn't be an issue.
Since I got my Chargemaster, I just carry that with me now.
goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
I think most would agree that a gun will shoot it's best at it's peak tune. Most would also agree that the peak tune is very specific.
The way I see it, if your gun wants "Y" load for that day and you have shown up with "X" load pre-loaded into vials, you aren't going to be at peak tune. This may be where tuners have an advantage. But, most tuner shooters I see still bring all their powder loading stuff to the matches? But that's a whole different thread........
Also, most would agree that even after you have the right tune and load "y" is drilling itty bitty groups, it will only do so IF IT IS BEING STEERED RIGHT! Just like the crown is the last thing to touch the bullet, the wind flags are the last thing to make the group and if they are ignored, all else was in VAIN!
Incidentally, when I have weighed charges to find the peak tune, I have found that loads that were intentionally thrown .1 higher or lower of the desired weight went right into the same hole as the others. So .2 variation doesn't concern me.
H
hecksf
Guest
Instead of showing up with 100 prelaoded vials and reloading the same 15 cases and shooting them 6.6 times apiece ,
why don't you just show up with 100 preloaded cases and shoot them 1 time apiece?
Then you wouldn't have to tote all of that heavy reloading equipment around!
If I thought I could throw extruded powders within .1 up or down I would forget this weighing nonsense. BUt if you look through all of my past post over the years you will find at least 4 that mention that I am unable to throw charges with that consistancy. Usually at least 2 out of every 12 to 14 charges will be up or down by .2 and within a 20 charge window at least one will be up or down by .3.
And yes I have tried all of the tricks like clicking the handle twice and standing on one foot or holding my tounge in the left cheeck with my eyes crossed and it doesn't seem to help.
The only reason I reload at the range during a match is it gives me something to do.
why don't you just show up with 100 preloaded cases and shoot them 1 time apiece?
Then you wouldn't have to tote all of that heavy reloading equipment around!
If I thought I could throw extruded powders within .1 up or down I would forget this weighing nonsense. BUt if you look through all of my past post over the years you will find at least 4 that mention that I am unable to throw charges with that consistancy. Usually at least 2 out of every 12 to 14 charges will be up or down by .2 and within a 20 charge window at least one will be up or down by .3.
And yes I have tried all of the tricks like clicking the handle twice and standing on one foot or holding my tounge in the left cheeck with my eyes crossed and it doesn't seem to help.
The only reason I reload at the range during a match is it gives me something to do.
R
Russ Hardy
Guest
That is exactly how I use premeasured charges. You can change your load at any time just like with your powder measure. The only difference is that when I change loads I know exactly what I'm changing to. I occasionally will weigh some of the vials I previously sorted and they have always weighed the same as when I segregated them.
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goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
Wow! And I thought I hauled a lot of crap to the matches!!!
That makes sense to have different loads in the vials but, my goodness, I couldn't deal with that much extra stuff. I think I'd rather go back to hauling the CHargemaster around again then haul around 2000 vials! Not to mention having to sit down and charge 2000 vials for one weekend! You'd have to start in the winter to have it done by mid-summer! Then what happens if you want to shoot TWO matches?
All kidding aside, I guess to each his own. But remember this, most of the Hall of Fame shooters got there by throwing powder from a measure. IF it didn't work, they wouldn't be there. Why just last week, HOFer OCock shot a possible new record agg and group with powder he threw from his "one arm bandit".