Which Harrell's 30BR Resizing Die?

[Kyle Schultz]

I'm preparing to fire my new 30BR this week. I'm borrowing a friend's Harrell's B2 sizing die to use temporarily. Per Harrell's instructions, I plan to send them three 2X-fired cases so they can spec the die.

However, based on my 6 Dasher experience with them, IMO they are too conservation when it come to sizing the base. I understand not wanting to overwork the brass but my experience, again based on the 6 Dasher, is that unless you aggressively resize the base, you will eventually experience difficult extractions and "clickers".

A search of the board seems to indicate that a 2.5 is the typical die they spec. And there are also reports of cases sized with the 2.5 sticking in Wilson seating dies. Some members report Harrell's provided a reworked 2.5 die and others report using a 3.0 die. FWIW, in my 6 Dasher, Harrell's initially sent me a D1.5 but I now use a D4.

Is there a general consensus of which Harrell's 30BR resizing die is appropriate? TIA!

 

[Greyfox]

I'm preparing to fire my new 30BR this week. I'm borrowing a friend's Harrell's B2 sizing die to use temporarily. Per Harrell's instructions, I plan to send them three 2X-fired cases so they can spec the die.

However, based on my 6 Dasher experience with them, IMO they are too conservation when it come to sizing the base. I understand not wanting to overwork the brass but my experience, again based on the 6 Dasher, is that unless you aggressively resize the base, you will eventually experience difficult extractions and "clickers".

A search of the board seems to indicate that a 2.5 is the typical die they spec. And there are also reports of cases sized with the 2.5 sticking in Wilson seating dies. Some members report Harrell's provided a reworked 2.5 die and others report using a 3.0 die. FWIW, in my 6 Dasher, Harrell's initially sent me a D1.5 but I now use a D4.

Is there a general consensus of which Harrell's 30BR resizing die is appropriate? TIA!

I've lost count how many dies I've bought from Harrell's. Never had one that didn't work exactly as it was supposed to. The only bolt click I've experienced was when the chamber was cut far too small to begin with. They have never sent me a 2.5 in anything. If you don't trust their judgement, you might want to get your die somewhere else...and pay a lot more for it.

Rick

 

[Francis Lee]

30 br seater

If your cases stick in a Wilson seater die, you can send it back to Wilson (along w/your brass sample)& they will open it up for you.

 

[Francis Lee]

30 br seater die

If one has a problem w/cases sticking in a seater die, "opening" it up to fit the case has no effect on the dimensions of the loaded round; it just makes it so that you do not have to pry the loaded round out of the die.

 

[Al Nyhus]

Is there a general consensus of which Harrell's 30BR resizing die is appropriate? TIA!

Well....it depends on the chamber dimensions. In general, I've had the best luck by dropping at least to the next smaller increment from the recommendation. With a 30BR reamer that's based on the 'Robinett' specs., a Harrels #3 will get you there 95% of the time.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[Pete Wass]

Get the 3

Well....it depends on the chamber dimensions. In general, I've had the best luck by dropping at least to the next smaller increment from the recommendation. With a 30BR reamer that's based on the 'Robinett' specs., a Harrels #3 will get you there 95% of the time.

Good shootin'. -Al

The extrey .001" is a plus.

From all the 30 BR chambers I have had, the area just below the shoulder, for some reason, I assume it is the grind???, seems to grow the most. The .003" will take care of that.

Pete

 

[Kyle Schultz]

Thank you gentlemen for you helpful comments. Based on chamber case length (1.520") and neck diameter (0.330") I do believe I have a "Robinett" chamber. I still plan to send Harrell's some fired cases but will push to have them send a B3 die.

 

[Randy Jarvais]

I had to go the other way...

I used a 2.5 Harrell's die that worked appropriately until I had my reamer reground to remove some freebore. With the new chamber, I noticed immediately how much more effort I needed to resize my cases. I also noticed my cases "growing" which had not been an issue previously. I sent some cases off to Harrell's and the new chamber needed a 1.5 sizing die for a better fit. I say all of this because each reamer can be different, hence until you shoot the cases and get a sizing die, you won't know if you have a good fit between chamber and sizing die. If you oversize your cases with a die smaller than you need, you will work harden them faster than if you had a better fit.

 

[Pete Wass]

I think the problem for many is

I used a 2.5 Harrell's die that worked appropriately until I had my reamer reground to remove some freebore. With the new chamber, I noticed immediately how much more effort I needed to resize my cases. I also noticed my cases "growing" which had not been an issue previously. I sent some cases off to Harrell's and the new chamber needed a 1.5 sizing die for a better fit. I say all of this because each reamer can be different, hence until you shoot the cases and get a sizing die, you won't know if you have a good fit between chamber and sizing die. If you oversize your cases with a die smaller than you need, you will work harden them faster than if you had a better fit.

They didn't have their own reamer ground. If one has more then one Smith put in their chamber then who knows what one has? I went the route of sending off cases and still had sticky cases and wished I had gotten a tighter die. I use a full length 308 Small Chamber die after I anneal my cases now to size the butts back to where they should be so I guess it means my cases are growing beyond where my 2.5 Harrell's will keep them, eh? They don't get sticky until the 5th firing, usually.

I keep track of how may times I fire each case and anneal them after 6 firings, or , I should say, one of my "partners in crime" cleans then in the SS media and anneals them.

The best plan is to do what Randy did and get one's own reamer, then match it to a die. If one could trust that one could get a second reamer ground smaller, exactly like the chamber reamer then they could be assured of a proper die but - - - -. I guess those who are good at boring in their lathe could bore a proper die but that is well beyond my abilities at the lathe.

Bottom line is, no matter what one's chamber is, the resized cases are only what the die gives back and is unlikely to be exactly the same as the reamer that made the chamber. Why futzing with cases if one needs to resize seems futile to me and why I have over 500 finished cases. Sort of wasted I guess when one shoots one or two matches each year but there was a time - - - .

Some of the cases I have are the same ones I started with way back and I have acquired other finished cases as I have gone along and brought them into the collection. What I have found is cases are cases, they become what one's dies make them to be, in the end. I haven't cut a new 30 BR case in many years.

Pete

 

[Kyle Schultz]

** Update **

I went ahead and ordered a Harrell's B3 die before even having any fired cases. Shot a match this weekend. Here are some measurements for the group to ponder.

First, I do NOT have an accurate reamer drawing. I bought the rifle used but with a new 30BR barrel. The selling gunsmith, after initially not being able to find his reamer drawing, supplied a replacement, Rev C dated 8/12/09, from PT&G. That drawing indicates a web dimension of 0.471" with a case length of 1.560". Based on that drawing, Jackie Schmidt graciously helped me out with some longer fire-formed 30BR cases that would be a better fit for the 1.560" chamber. As you probably already know, cases formed by necking-up Lapua 6BR brass generally measure 1.525". That would leave an oversized free bore length that several experts advised me would not be optimum.

However, Jackie's cases would not chamber. After progressively trimming one of his cases, at 1.520" OAL, the case would chamber. So I'm pretty sure the Rev C reamer was not used to cut my chamber. Consequently, I also really don't know the intended web dimension of my chamber.

Web dimension of the fired cases measured 0.4698". By contrast, the web of the virgin Lapua cases I have is 0.4692". This is using my micrometer. It is only been calibrated using feeler gauges so, in truth, it's probably best to think of it as a comparator rather than providing absolute measurements.

The few cases I resized with the B2 die I borrowed from a friend had a web dimension of 0.4696". The resized case would chamber easily and the bolt with the firing pin assembly removed would close on it's own by gravity. I'm using a 0.324 neck bushing which gives me a 0.328 loaded round neck in a 0.330" chamber. Note: After reviewing all the numbers, I suspect the B2 die was probably resizing a little more than the 0.4696" I recorded in my notebook. I soon will have 8 more 1X-fired cases to verify that number.

The B3 die yielded cases with a 0.4693" web. As expected they also chambered easily. I then resized all the fired cases I had available using the B3 die.

Now here's where science stops and art begins. One could argue that since the B2 die yielded a case which chambered easily it would be sufficient and that the B3 die would be overworking the brass. But, here's where my (and others) experience with the 6 Dasher comes into play. The rule of thumb for a 6 Dasher is that the web should be reduced a minimum of 0.0005". 0.0008" is considered optimum. Otherwise, after repeated firings, maybe 5 or 6x, there will be insufficient clearance between brass and chamber and fired-case extraction will become difficult and you will start to experience "clickers". Earlier in this thread, other shooters reported similar experience in their 30BRs when using a die that did not sufficiently resize the web. I also don't feel that I'm overworking the brass since the resized web using the B3 die is still larger than what virgin brass measures.

As only have 100 cases, these will be fired and recycled pretty quickly. I plan to update this thread once I have 5 or 6 firings on the brass. Thanks for your help and good luck!

 

[Al Nyhus]

Assuming the measurements are accurate, you will have issues with the #2 sooner or later. There's no downside to getting after the back end a bit more. And plenty of upside....it's best to avoid 'clickers' right from the start.

A 45 ACP carbide die can be used for an occasional touch up on the back end.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[Pete Wass]

I think there is only

.001" between each of the die sizes so .001" on the up side isn't going to harm a dern thing. Heck, it's hard to see .001". I'm with Al on the butts. The small base .308 die I use does might well.

Pete