What size groups are considered good in 600 and 1K bench rest shooting

B

bingo

Guest
Not asking what the world records are, but rather what size groups would be considered average for LR BR, or perhaps what constitutes the outside parameters for respectable groups, as in "that guy may not be the best shooter, but does well consistently."
 
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Your question depends on the range were you will be shooting as the winds determine the group sizes.
At 600 yards 3 inches for 5 shots is typical and anything under 2 inches is good.
For heavygun the nbrsa shoots 10 shots while IBS shoots 5 shots.
At 1000 the winds play a major role in deciding average target sizes but for 5 shots figure 7 inches or less in moderate winds and under 5 inches in light winds.
Lynn
 
Thank you for the info. Great answers from both of you. Those match score sheets really spell it out.
 
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I was going to say for a 1K Heavy Gun that if it 6 match aggs 7" or greater for 10 matches, it needs fixed.

At the PA Club where some think there is no wind ever, winning a relay for group, average for 2010 was.

HG 6.8613
LG 8.9488

Winning a shootoff for group required groups of:
H 5.9621000
L 7.5801000

Placing in the top 3 for group in a shootoff required average groups of:
H 6.8606333
L 9.5039667

At that club, LG's shoot 10 shots instead of 5.

Of course, at the PA club, you can actually get such numbers, where at the ranges out west with all the wind, they don't have these figures to give you!
 
in colorado there are typically 2 relays...which means the shoot offs are in the afternoon. if you have ever been here...the wind picks up.......what wins a relay sometime does not show up in a shoot off...


the numbers in the first reply are not shoot off groups out here...

mike in co
 
I shoot long range using tactical gear, that being solid bipod, and a rest, roll or bag for stock support, and am sometimes able to keep a 1000 yd group going over 5 shots or so, before usually
dropping one, or having one sail to the side. I would like to clean my long distance groups up as much as possible and part of that for me is a desire to learn more about the equipment and techniques used in LR benchrest, so that I can have a better overall understanding of the possibilities. I know there is a lot to learn in the various shooting disciplines, however the idea of being able to send a 10 shot group out to 1K with the results I am reading off the match lists look pretty darn good to me. The other side of the equation is that occasionally I hear a person bragging on their long range abilities
and notice that apparently a lot of guys shoot the best groups when nobody was there to "confirm" it , if'n you know what I mean. Seeing a group of match results
and learning what is possible in the real world, helps me feel a bit better about the shooting I am already doing, as well as gives me an idea of what is realistic to shoot for
in time.
 
Mikeinco,

In pa, they shoot 10 relays, and the shootoff is usually still in the morning. At the World Open, they shoot 13 or 14 relays, and break for lunch at noon. This is with a starting time never even one minute before 9am. Be that as it may, it is almost always windier in the shootoffs than it is in the relays.

Fact is, I might just go do a query on that and see what the numbers there are. Again, that is possible on the east coast.

Bingo,
If you're shooting off a bipod there's going to be a big disparity in time between what you do there and what guys do in BR. If I had to guess, (and I do) I'd say that an average LRBR HG shooter averages around 50 seconds for the 10 shots. Some guys are WAY faster than that, most hover around there, and some are slightly slower. Off a bipod, you're gonna have to be God's second cousin to get shots down there that fast, and do it accurately. A lot of group size is going to be determined by that time. That's a simple fact of BR.

In good conditions and with a good gun, you should be able to do 10" groups and I'd be really happy with that. Even if they were 5 shots, I'd still be happy, and I would not be surprised to see an occasional 20"er in there when the wind gets going. I tend to agree with the 1st reply here, those figures are right about on the money.

Do yourself a favor and time one of the groups you shoot, or better yet, videotape it with a point/shoot camera and watch, then time it. IF you're in the 1min range for 5 shots, that's going to probably add 3-4" on average, just because of the time alone. Remember, some BR guys never even look in the scope. And lots that do don't have to. That's mighty fast.
 
There was a little more sql to that than I gave credit for.

In the two classes, group in the shootoff by the same shooter who won the relay was greater than the relay group by an average of:
H 2.0260750
L 1.0191200

And that is for 180 target pairs during 2010. 20 of the 200 people did not have 10 on during the shootoff.

This speaks to time of day alone causing the shooters to shoot bigger. I'd say that the HG's have a bigger disparity due to the fact that they simply have smaller groups to begin with. But, I could only guess on that.
 
4mesh, your assessment is right on the money. From what I do know about LR BR, that factor of being able to get off your shots under a specific set of conditions, or in other words quickly, is simply not possible for me at this point, with my equipment. Even though I am using the heavier profile barrels,
that still approximates F-class more than Bench rest, and I am not even taking advantage of all the equipment allowed by F class rules. As with any pursuit worth the time, I want to understand what upping my game will or would entail. At this point, I am not even sure that really trying to make a run at benchrest would suit my personality, yet still I would like to investigate the possibilities and at least be able to speak about LR/BR or with the people who do pursue it with diligence on a level approaching competence. In any case, I appreciate your help bringing clarity to the equation.
 
Bingo
As you live in California and fully understand the phrase Santa anna winds your groups won't be as small as those at Williamsport Pennsylvania were 4Mesh lives.
In california the Sierra Nevada mountain range at 13,000 feet is only 3 hours from the Pacific ocean at sea level and the winds between the two are tremendous.
You have a 600 yard benchrest club in Ojai ran by Barry Bluhm who is a true gentleman you could visit or shoot there.Farther north you have the Sacramento club were the nbrsa nationals will be held during the 4th week of April.You can come up and visit and watch the shooting or bring your gun and shoot.
If you e-mail me at lynn_dragoman@att.net you can shoot one of my guns for the whole event free of charge.You pay the entry fees and join the nbrsa and the rest is on myself.
Lynn

Edited to fix e-mail address
 
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Thank You Lynn, wind is just a fact of life here a good part of the time. I will E-mail you.

-B
 
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