what evidence would show that a used remington 700 has been trued?
- Thread starter 404tbang
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L
Larry Elliott
Guest
If the gunsmith did a good job it would seem to me that it would be difficult to tell by looking if an action had been trued. If the bolt had been bushed that would be pretty obvious, but unless it's a BR rifle the face of the receiver would either be mostly covered by the recoil lug and he would likely have touched up the exposed face with some cold blue. The barrel threads wouldn't be visible, and any machine work on the inside of the receiver would be hard for someone who's not an expert to see too.
Wayne Shaw
Active member
Larry is right. I might add to the list, one obvious thing would be a new barrel. Most wouldn't true an action and put a factory barrel back on.
Look at the bolt lugs, front and back. The front should still be blued most of the time, andmost used guns have a certain amount of galling on the back. If they are smooth, someone may have faced them. The bolt face again would likely be blued if original. Lastly, look at how much clearance there is between the front of the bolt handle and the action when the bolt is closed. If the is a large gap, over say .025", the lugs may have been faced too much.
Look at the bolt lugs, front and back. The front should still be blued most of the time, andmost used guns have a certain amount of galling on the back. If they are smooth, someone may have faced them. The bolt face again would likely be blued if original. Lastly, look at how much clearance there is between the front of the bolt handle and the action when the bolt is closed. If the is a large gap, over say .025", the lugs may have been faced too much.
B
Big Al
Guest
If a stock barrel sort of wobbles around you would have a good idea that the receiver threads are a bunch to big.
more info I should have mentioned first!
Thanks for the replies gentlemen! The rifle is left handed
.It does have what I believe is a Douglass premium air gauged #7 contour stainless barrel on it. The barrel is 25.5 inches long. I always PRESUMED that someone would true the reciever before putting a custom barrel on it, but there are always exeptions. When I looked at the chamber, I could see the xx in an oval at the end of the barrel, went to the Douglass website and I think I interpreted that correctly.
The bolt has been jeweled. The space between the bolt handle and action seems like it might have been a hair tight at some time, as there is a bit of blue worn on the action. Curiously, the handle seems to have been ground enough to remove some bluing in a larger area than is on the reciever. I compared the handle to that of a custom 700 hunting rifle I have, the thickness appears the same.
The front of the lugs still have some blueing on both bolts. The rear of the lugs, if they have been cleaned up on the rifle in question, it has been cycled enough that there appears to have been some galling over time, so I don't know if they were faced or not.
The stock is quite similar to that on a factory 40x I used to have, but not a 40x because it is a long action. The stock has been glass bedded. It is cut out on the side to allow for the iron sights. I may be wrong, but I do not think it is a factory stock.
The rifle is set up as a Palma rifle in .308 currently. The guy I bought it from had originally purchased it for that purpose. It has an adjustable buttplate, accesory rail and hand stop. Parker Hale rear sight with adjustable iris, and Redfield International front sight. He said he shot one five shot group at 100 yards, it was sub moa with the irons, and then cleaned it and put it in the safe. He prefers competing with gas guns in service rifle competitions.
The reciever shows no scoring that would indicate that there has ever been a scope mounted.
I called Remington to check when it was built. They said Oct 1979. The records showed that they had recieved it for a repair once. I speculated it might have something to do with the bolt handle coming off and being rebrazed . I was trying to understand why the handle appeared to have been lightly ground, but no way to prove that. My hunting rifle was built, by them in 1973. Were the 700s from the 70's considered decent quality? I know that a lot of people seem to be getting annoyed with the quality of the new 700s.
I have no idea of who built the rifle or when it was done. It is obviously not factory. I had thought about having a gunsmith rechamber it in 30-06, I liked the idea of hunting and competing with the same cartridge. German Salazar was kind enough to email me and tell me pros and cons of competing with the 30-06. He also said to see how it does in the .308 chambering. I simply haven't had the chance to shoot it yet.
It seemed to me to be somewhat reasonable to get the action trued if I had the barrel rechambered to 30-06. After reading the pros and cons of a trued Remington vs. a custom, I got curious. What if I HAD a trued Remington? How would I know? Wouldn't want to waste money doing it again. But I got a good enough deal on the rifle, that I would not feel to bad about getting some work done.
Sorry this is so long and rambling, and I should have put this info out first.
Any more info on trying to determine if it has been trued or not would be appreciated.
Thanks again,
Greg
Thanks for the replies gentlemen! The rifle is left handed
.It does have what I believe is a Douglass premium air gauged #7 contour stainless barrel on it. The barrel is 25.5 inches long. I always PRESUMED that someone would true the reciever before putting a custom barrel on it, but there are always exeptions. When I looked at the chamber, I could see the xx in an oval at the end of the barrel, went to the Douglass website and I think I interpreted that correctly.The bolt has been jeweled. The space between the bolt handle and action seems like it might have been a hair tight at some time, as there is a bit of blue worn on the action. Curiously, the handle seems to have been ground enough to remove some bluing in a larger area than is on the reciever. I compared the handle to that of a custom 700 hunting rifle I have, the thickness appears the same.
The front of the lugs still have some blueing on both bolts. The rear of the lugs, if they have been cleaned up on the rifle in question, it has been cycled enough that there appears to have been some galling over time, so I don't know if they were faced or not.
The stock is quite similar to that on a factory 40x I used to have, but not a 40x because it is a long action. The stock has been glass bedded. It is cut out on the side to allow for the iron sights. I may be wrong, but I do not think it is a factory stock.
The rifle is set up as a Palma rifle in .308 currently. The guy I bought it from had originally purchased it for that purpose. It has an adjustable buttplate, accesory rail and hand stop. Parker Hale rear sight with adjustable iris, and Redfield International front sight. He said he shot one five shot group at 100 yards, it was sub moa with the irons, and then cleaned it and put it in the safe. He prefers competing with gas guns in service rifle competitions.
The reciever shows no scoring that would indicate that there has ever been a scope mounted.
I called Remington to check when it was built. They said Oct 1979. The records showed that they had recieved it for a repair once. I speculated it might have something to do with the bolt handle coming off and being rebrazed . I was trying to understand why the handle appeared to have been lightly ground, but no way to prove that. My hunting rifle was built, by them in 1973. Were the 700s from the 70's considered decent quality? I know that a lot of people seem to be getting annoyed with the quality of the new 700s.
I have no idea of who built the rifle or when it was done. It is obviously not factory. I had thought about having a gunsmith rechamber it in 30-06, I liked the idea of hunting and competing with the same cartridge. German Salazar was kind enough to email me and tell me pros and cons of competing with the 30-06. He also said to see how it does in the .308 chambering. I simply haven't had the chance to shoot it yet.
It seemed to me to be somewhat reasonable to get the action trued if I had the barrel rechambered to 30-06. After reading the pros and cons of a trued Remington vs. a custom, I got curious. What if I HAD a trued Remington? How would I know? Wouldn't want to waste money doing it again. But I got a good enough deal on the rifle, that I would not feel to bad about getting some work done.
Sorry this is so long and rambling, and I should have put this info out first.
Any more info on trying to determine if it has been trued or not would be appreciated.
Thanks again,
Greg
D
Dennis Sorensen
Guest
I would guess there are probably a million 700's that have received new barrels with no work done to the action what ever...
Remove your present barrel and inspect the threads and compare the fit of a factory 700 barrel... possibly consult a gunsmith...
Accurately thread a piece of steel in a lathe and screw the action on to it... Fit a snug mandrel in the bolt race... rotate the chuck by hand and measure the run out on the mandrel past the rear of the action.
3 thou or less run out and the action has probably had some work done.. often they run out will be 25 or 30 thou on a factory action.
Remove your present barrel and inspect the threads and compare the fit of a factory 700 barrel... possibly consult a gunsmith...
Accurately thread a piece of steel in a lathe and screw the action on to it... Fit a snug mandrel in the bolt race... rotate the chuck by hand and measure the run out on the mandrel past the rear of the action.
3 thou or less run out and the action has probably had some work done.. often they run out will be 25 or 30 thou on a factory action.
C
chino69
Guest
Trued Remington
Greg,
A decent honorable gunsmith should be able to examine and tell you if the receiver has been trued or not. The better gunsmiths would probably true the action when fitting a new barrel as in the case of your XX Douglas. If you look at the back of your bolt locking lugs they should have a nice even wear with no galling. I have several Remington trued actions and the back of the bolt lugs engage the recesses evenly and have a polished surface. If you are thinking about having it re-barreled by a reputable smith, he won't charge you to true it if that work has been performed. Notice the operative word 'reputable'.
Lou Baccino
Greg,
A decent honorable gunsmith should be able to examine and tell you if the receiver has been trued or not. The better gunsmiths would probably true the action when fitting a new barrel as in the case of your XX Douglas. If you look at the back of your bolt locking lugs they should have a nice even wear with no galling. I have several Remington trued actions and the back of the bolt lugs engage the recesses evenly and have a polished surface. If you are thinking about having it re-barreled by a reputable smith, he won't charge you to true it if that work has been performed. Notice the operative word 'reputable'.
Lou Baccino
O
Old Gunner
Guest
Seems to me that the .30/06 has at least a theroretical advantage when bullets of 172 grain and upwards are to be used, especially when the longer boat tail and low drag bullets are used.
I'd be hesitant to try the 220 grain boat tail in a .308, though no doubt there are loads that work quite well in the shorter .308.
My reasoning is that limitations on cartridge OAL would result in reduction of usable powder space.
In theory the 06 should be more efficient with the heavier bullets, lower deviation in velocity, and over all lower pressures for the same velocity range.
It should allow for a significant increase in velocity, especially with the heaviest bullets if suitable powders are used.
At shorter ranges the .308 may have the advantage, the smaller case would allow more efficient ignition and burning of a lighter charge.
Look for evidence that previous locking surface setback has been diamond disc ground away.
I'd be hesitant to try the 220 grain boat tail in a .308, though no doubt there are loads that work quite well in the shorter .308.
My reasoning is that limitations on cartridge OAL would result in reduction of usable powder space.
In theory the 06 should be more efficient with the heavier bullets, lower deviation in velocity, and over all lower pressures for the same velocity range.
It should allow for a significant increase in velocity, especially with the heaviest bullets if suitable powders are used.
At shorter ranges the .308 may have the advantage, the smaller case would allow more efficient ignition and burning of a lighter charge.
Look for evidence that previous locking surface setback has been diamond disc ground away.
terry byler
New member
rechamber ?
if this is on a short action,the 30/06 will be too long to work thru the magazine,and if you shoot it single shot the loaded round won't eject out the action opening
if this is on a short action,the 30/06 will be too long to work thru the magazine,and if you shoot it single shot the loaded round won't eject out the action opening
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
sounds like a short chamber barrel to me- a home gunsmith project. a custom fit barrel, fit by a true barrel fitter, wouldn't have no XX at the back. I bet it's a stock action and a short chamber barrel. someone who could actually true the action can chamber a barrel.
O
Old Gunner
Guest
Some Remington .308 rifles are built on the long action, the M24 Sniper Rifle for example (the M40 uses a short action). I'm not sure when the short action was introduced, but I remember turning down a Remington .308 once because it was built on the long action, and I just couldn't see any advantage to a short cartridge in a long action.
Best to check to be sure before going further.
Best to check to be sure before going further.
D
Donald
Guest
I think Dusty has the answer. I would think any gunsmith fitting a new barrel would cut some off the big end of the barrel, thus removing the stamped in markings. But stranger things have happened.
Donald
B
BottleBaby
Guest
From your post it sounds like you already own the rifle.
If you do, does it shoot? If it does, whether or not the action has been trued is more or less irrelevant.
Maybe when you rebarrel it, you can have it checked as described above.
If you do, does it shoot? If it does, whether or not the action has been trued is more or less irrelevant.
Maybe when you rebarrel it, you can have it checked as described above.
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
My first two custom rifles I asked the Gunsmith (RW Hart) to rework the action if he felt it needed it. He fitted Hart barrels and said actions were fine. They both shot very well so I find it hard to believe he was in error. These were Remington short actions off Varmint Special rifles back in the early 1980's
Dick
O
Old Gunner
Guest
If you intend to have the barrel rechambered for the .30/06 it would probably be best to have this done with the barrel dismounted and turned in a lathe.
Then you could have the action checked for signs of its having been previously trued or have the work done at that time.
Then you could have the action checked for signs of its having been previously trued or have the work done at that time.
D
Donald
Guest
in the 80's. Good grief, how old are you?
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Ancient
Bob Kingsbury
New member
XX and trued actions
I agree in part with Dusty Stevens, that the XX would have been
machined away. However, if the barrel was pre- threaded and chambered
the XX may have been untouched. This would indicate that it was installed
by someone unfamiliar with action work. In the 80's , action work was not that common, and often out of reach for some. Before the custom actions
appeared, it was not deemed neccessary to improve actions, beyond lapping
lugs. That the bolt handle is and should be closer to the cut-out on its forward side is pretty well accepted, but not all remingtons are that way. That said, little can be asertained if that is not the case. There are also
many grades of trued rem actions, some , not so good and I doubt, that
anyone can tell how well it was done or if at all, without disasembly.
Dick Grosbier would have been a very lucky man to have a couple of Rem's
that were true, out of the box. At least 99% are warped to some degree.
I agree in part with Dusty Stevens, that the XX would have been
machined away. However, if the barrel was pre- threaded and chambered
the XX may have been untouched. This would indicate that it was installed
by someone unfamiliar with action work. In the 80's , action work was not that common, and often out of reach for some. Before the custom actions
appeared, it was not deemed neccessary to improve actions, beyond lapping
lugs. That the bolt handle is and should be closer to the cut-out on its forward side is pretty well accepted, but not all remingtons are that way. That said, little can be asertained if that is not the case. There are also
many grades of trued rem actions, some , not so good and I doubt, that
anyone can tell how well it was done or if at all, without disasembly.
Dick Grosbier would have been a very lucky man to have a couple of Rem's
that were true, out of the box. At least 99% are warped to some degree.
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
I think that's exactly what I said. a short chambered barrel, ordered from midway and screwed on an action by somebody without a lathe.
you guys are very helpful!
Thank you all for the help and insight! Like I said before, it occurred to me that I did not know what signs to look for in a trued reciever. I will shoot it in .308 first when I get the time. It may be just fine. If I do have the barrel pulled to be rechambered to 30-06, it will be by a reputable (hopefully) smith who could tell me what has or has not been done. As the point was made, at this stage it is irrelevant as I already have the rifle.
I just got to wondering, as everything on the rifle seems to have been great quality, if it had been trued. Having some idea what to look for on future purchases is helpful. Just because someone said it has been trued, does not mean it has been trued. Or completely trued, or correctly trued.
Thanks to all again!
Greg
Thank you all for the help and insight! Like I said before, it occurred to me that I did not know what signs to look for in a trued reciever. I will shoot it in .308 first when I get the time. It may be just fine. If I do have the barrel pulled to be rechambered to 30-06, it will be by a reputable (hopefully) smith who could tell me what has or has not been done. As the point was made, at this stage it is irrelevant as I already have the rifle.
I just got to wondering, as everything on the rifle seems to have been great quality, if it had been trued. Having some idea what to look for on future purchases is helpful. Just because someone said it has been trued, does not mean it has been trued. Or completely trued, or correctly trued.
Thanks to all again!
Greg