Wanting a lathe

themayor

New member
I have been wanting a lathe for awhile. But never can pull the trigger because i am not sure how hard it will be for me to pick up the trade. How hard is it for a guy with no experince to be able to operate a lathe. I have no one to teach me other than myself i will get whatever books i need but i want to make sure i will beable to get the hang of it.

And on a side note what kind of stuff have you made on your lathes?
 
U are in luck, I have a lathe for sale if you are interested. It will have to be picked up ofcourse. It is a oldie but goodie, the man that had it before used it to tinker with guns......PM me if interested....
 
I am teaching myself how to operate a Southbend..If you are mechanically inclined and have some basic metal working know how...You can pick it up the basics pretty quick...The one I got has probably 100 different adjustments and settings that I don't know exactly what they do...lol... I'll have it mastered....someday...lol

They are very powerful...you don't want to get something caught up in it when it's running, clothing, digits, hair, etc...lol
 
Lathe for hobby gunsmithing

I too am interested in getting a lathe. I've enrolled at the local trade school for a course. "An Introduction to Machine shop technology". Hopefully it will get me on the right track. At least the course should teach me how the adjustments operate, which attachment I will need, and safety!!

I started a thread trying to get opinions on should I buy an old South Bend in good shape or a new 4003 Grizzly or look for something else all together, but I didn't really get many "on subject" responses.

Perhaps my instructor will be able to guide me right. I start school tomorrow.:)

I would still like to hear what the guys on here think is the best way to go!
 
I too am interested in getting a lathe.
I started a thread trying to get opinions on should I buy an old South Bend in good shape or a new 4003 Grizzly or look for something else all together, but I didn't really get many "on subject" responses.

Perhaps my instructor will be able to guide me right. I start school tomorrow.:)

I would still like to hear what the guys on here think is the best way to go!
Keith23, you got 40 responses on that earlier thread. Surely you got some idea about lathes.

One of those responders stated that the South Bend Heavy 10's are relics. How come they are still being made after their introduction over 60 years ago. They apparently are not too much junk, a new SBL H10 sells for over $12,000. A good used one can be had for less than some of this new junk being sold today.

I will copy my response here for the above posters who are apparently new to wanting a lathe and wanting to learn how to operate them.


There are literally thousands of tech school and high school shops that still use worn out and crashed South Bend Heavy 10's. There is not a lot to really wear out on them except the feed nuts, ways and spindle bearings.

SBL spindle bearings are sleeve bearings and are adjustable for free-play. A worn sleeve bearing will not "run out", it will just create some slop that may result in chatter in certain conditions of turning and boring with certain tooling but it will not create out-of-round diameters.

Worn ball or roller bearings can create out-of-round diameters if the balls, rollers, or races become chipped.

The bedway wear is only a factor if you are turning long diameters.

A worn tailstock, like Butch states, is not a factor in chamber reaming unless you try to use some of the so called "floating" reamer holders.

SBL Heavy 10's were made literally by the hundreds of thousands so used parts are available in many places. South Bend Lathe Co still offers new parts, even for the older models. I have a 1944 H-10 made for the US Navy and I got a cross feed nut for it from South Bend in 2 days.

It has been said many times, a good machinist can take a worn lathe and make good parts, but a bad machinist can not take a new lathe and make good parts.

How does one get to be a good machinist? Practice!! Practice on a good lathe like a SBL H-20 or Monarch EE or the like.

Much of this junk coming in now from Communist China is just that-junk. It will look good and has new paint, but run it for a while and it is junk. The type castings and bearings used on much of these imports are fine for the short term but go out and look in the machining industry and see how many of these imports they have.

In my 40+ year career as, among other things, as Manufacturing Engineer for a large chemical company (18,000+ employees) and as an educator and a technical adviser to three technical community colleges, and as a designer of US Department of Labor Bureau of Apprentice Training programs I have visited many many school and industry shops. They have all used South Bend Lathes for some of the training.

I can give you a long list of benchrest gunsmiths that use SBL H-10's also.
 
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my experance with commie china lathe

Folks that are wanting a good lathe write down what Jerry is telling you.
2 years ago I sold a 9X36 southbend and a 12X24 clausing with a buck 6 jaw. I call china lathe importer and told them what I was looking for. Yep we have it and will send it out. After what seems like months lathe findley shows up. I won't bore you with all the problems and lack of details. I'm to scared to name the importer of the lathe. If I did I would have to hire VarmintGuy to protect me,and that would mean I would have less money and he would have less time to argue with VarmintWife,collect remington rifles and Varmint hunt!
Southbends/clausings are easy to keep tuned up and find parts for.
 
Jerry

I do believed that when I said the old South Bends were relics,I qualified this by stating some of the major problems that can occur. A unsupecting buyer can end upwith something that willjust be a sourceof mysery, rather than a thing of joy.
Sure, there are some good ones out there. But for every good one, there are probably five that are worth about $.045 a pound at the scrap yard.
That remark you made about a good machinist being able to do good work on a worn out machine. Well , I am a pretty good Machinist, and I have no interest what so ever in trying to perform precision work on a worn out piece of junk........jackie
 
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I sold lathes for years on ebay. one month I sold nine. The Southbend name is magic, like winchester. Genunine Southbend lathes were belt drives. Long after other manufacturers went to gearhead Southbend got away with selling beltdrive lathes, and often for more money. They were good simple straightforward lathes, accurate, smooth, and easy to fix. I have rebuilt several Southbend lathes, down to rescraping the bedways, cross-slide and saddle ways. As they get older each individual lathe has wear and damage which effects its usefullness and value. A nice 13" Southbend is about as good a homeshop lathe as you can get.
 
Jerry
Part of your statement needs updated as South Bend is no longer making lathes or in business.

Hal
 
To themayor....

A little over three years ago, I finally got serious about doing my own barreling work, and began looking for a lathe. Let me tell you, there aren't many decent used lathes (of the appropriate size for gunsmithing) out here in western Kansas. Oh, if you buy papers from all the surrounding area towns and watch the classifieds like a hawk, you might eventually find something worth driving to look at, but it quickly became obvious that, if I wanted to get started ASAP (and I did), I was going to have to buy something new. And, as far as I was able to tell, there aren't any new American made lathes available, so these two factors quickly whittled my choices down to buying a new import machine.

I wound up buying a JET GH1340W-1, which is a heavy (just over a ton) 13x40 lathe set up for single phase. The downside is that it's made in mainland China. I paid right at $5K for it, which at the time was about as much as I thought I could afford and still have something left to buy tooling with. IIRC, there were a few Taiwanese machines in the same weight class, but they were all priced at $7K+, so I went with the JET. If I'd have known then what I know now, I'd have either managed to dig up the extra $$$ one of the Taiwanese lathes cost, or saved until I could swing the purchase.

However, we (by 'we', I'm referring to a semi-local JET dealer) have worked through the problems I've had with the JET, including scrapping both the 3 & 4-jaw chucks that came with it, and the chicom single-phase motor. JET replaced the chucks within two days after the dealer called their warranty dept., and the new chucks are just fine. When the OEM main motor crapped out, we tried a bandaid fix of replacing the starter contact points, but they started arcing & sticking again within about 3 days. So, since JET didn't have a direct replacement motor in the country, they offered me up to $300 cash to replace it with whatever I could find locally. I bought a US Motors (made in Mexico) 3hp 3-phase, along with a TECO VFD and had a local electrician come out and wire everything up so I could use the lathe's controls to start/stop/reverse, and so the footbrake & emergency stop would work. I am very pleased with the conversion to a 3-phase motor and with the VFD. After a year of use, I had to snug up the spindle bearing collar to take some play out of the spindle bearings - don't recall how much play there was, but it was too much to be suitable for cutting BR-quality chambers. I also had to make my own spider/cathead to hold the outboard end of barrels being fitted & chambered in the headstock.

I've replaced the OEM toolpost with a Phase II QC post, and have bought 16 extra toolholders for it. Installed a Newall C80 DRO last year - should have ordered the machine with one already installed. After all this, I've got a machine that does good work. My chambers seldom have more than .0001" runout, and the barrels I've fitted & chambered shoot very respectably.

However, while looking at and handling the Grizzly gunsmithing lathes at the SHOT Show, I kinda gritted my teeth, wishing they'd have been available when I was first looking to purchase a lathe. These machines already have QC toolposts, roller tip follow & steady rests, spider, and have precision spindle bearings suitable for toolroom or gunsmithing use. Their tailstocks are matched in height to the spindle center, and feature a socket that allows the use of a torque wrench when locking down to avoid variations in height. The downside is that they're both made in mainland China, and the smaller one (G4003G) doesn't have a wide selection of speeds in the low end of the range for threading. For my purposes, that leaves the 16x40 machine, which would probably satisfy my needs pretty much completely. Another thing I like about the 16x40 is that the spindle length is shorter than my JET's - the shortest barrel I can do through the headstock is about 26".

When it comes to learning how to run a lathe, for someone with no experience, I'd strongly suggest at least a semester of an introductory class at a local JUCO or trade school. If that's not an option, you need to find someone locally who can show you the ropes. There's a huge amount of knowledge & information available on the internet, but until you've got some hands-on experience, most of it is just not going to be real meaningful. A used metal shop textbook would also be helpful, as would subscriptions to "The Home Shop Machinist" and/or "Machinist's Workshop".
 
Jerry and others!

I did not mean to sound as if I didn't get any useful information. If that is the way I came across I would like to apologize to everyone that replied. Let it be known that this forum has provided me and many others a lot of information that is not available in too many other places. I appreciate those with experience sharing their know so freely here!

Keith
 
I have a Logan 11" lathe that I bought used many years ago. It was a learning experience. I frequently go to the school of hard knocks. A purchase like this on the cheap is most likely not a good plan. My Logan came with little or no tooling. Tooling and accessories that are included make or break the desireability of a machine tool. Some of the accessories can be specific to the machine tool. Logan and South Bend were competitors and were perceived as higher quality lathes when compared to an Atlas. I think if you have two side by side you will see that. I think what Jackie and others are telling you is true. South Bend used sleeve type bearings in the headstock and Logan used preloaded ball bearings. Both worked quite well when new. My Logan was made in the 50's and has had a lot of use. It cleaned up OK, but I will never use it for barrel fitting or other precision work like that. I am not a machinist, just a hacker. It depends on what your intentions are. The knowledge involved in machining is an art. The machine tools are somewhat like jumbo watches. They are different than any other mechanical device that I have ever worked on. They are complex and very deliberately and finely designed, machined and assembled. With my Logan I have made parts for old stationary hit and miss engines and other slow moving non-critical things. If you want something that is critical like barrel fitting I personally would job it out to a professional. I kinda like having my face the way it is, ugly or not. It will be a fairly rare find to have a South Bend or Logan or similar brand from the 50's 60's or 70's that is still in really tight good shape. If your goal is to find a good one, plan on spending thousands of dollars. I am not a big fan of the imports, but some of my buddies have some that they purchased recently that can turn out beautiful work. I can only suggest that if you have an opportunity to buy a lathe look it over thoroughly. Bring some buddies that know machine tools and have them scour it as well. Many times what will be for sale is a tool that is worn out by a shop's standards. Good luck, Peter.
 
Jerry
Part of your statement needs updated as South Bend is no longer making lathes or in business.


Hal
Hal, I don't think my statement needs updating. I just talked to DeWitt Engle, Sales manager of Leblond LTD. Leblond LTD now is the parent company of South Bend Lathe.

South Bend still offers a 10 x 30 tool room lathe (model GS26LT) almost exactly like the Heavy 10. It sells for $19,750 which is still cheap for a tool room quality lathe. A Monarch EE sells for about $80,000 now.

You can't expect to buy a tool room quality lathe for the same price of a Wal-Mart riding mower!!!


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I do believed that when I said the old South Bends were relics,I qualified this by stating some of the major problems that can occur. A unsupecting buyer can end upwith something that willjust be a sourceof mysery, rather than a thing of joy.
Sure, there are some good ones out there. But for every good one, there are probably five that are worth about $.045 a pound at the scrap yard.
That remark you made about a good machinist being able to do good work on a worn out machine. Well , I am a pretty good Machinist, and I have no interest what so ever in trying to perform precision work on a worn out piece of junk........jackie
Again I disagree. The most of the tens of thousands of South Bend Heavy 10's were on board Navy ships or were placed in vo/tec/community college settings. Very few of these lathes are seriously worn. Yes, there are thousands of SBL H10's that were set up in production settings that are pretty worn. I'd still rather have one of these than some of the new ChiCom junk sold by Harbor Freight and others.

I also still stand by my statement that a good machinist can take a worn machine and make good parts. Like I said earlier I'd rather have used quality than shiny new junk!!!

The downside is that this lathe is now $19,750 but a rebuilt Monarch EE is going for $65,000-$75,000. Don't expect to get a tool room precision lathe for the price of a Home Depot riding mower.
 
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I'm feeling better and better about my lathe purchase every day. I was looking around for better than 6 months for a good lathe and was in the process of dealing on a 13X40 Romi lathe when I found mine. It is a South Bend G26T, which South Bend had made for them for a short while. 13X36 lathe with 1 9/16" spindle bore and a short headstock (I can chuck a 17" barrel in the headstock). They sold new for around $9000 bare and mine had 3 and 4 jaw Buck chucks, Royal 5C collet attachment and the steadyrest (no follow rest but I bought one from Leblond).

It was in the Milwaukee Craiglist and as soon as I called and talked to the guy I said 'I'll take it, and I'll be there tomorrow with CASH if that's soon enough'. This lathe was bought new in 2001 and set up in a home shop. It sat unused for the last 5 years and was a real jewel. Price was $3500.

They're out there, just keep looking. Since then I've shopped a lot of industrial auctions, and there's some fair machines that do show up there also. I picked up my milling machine, surface grinder and a tig welder at one of them.
 

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Jerry

I was referring to the closing and dispersion sale of the South Bend Co. Leblond must have bought the name and are re tagging imports.
Did you happen to ask Leblond where they were having the machines made?

Hal
 
Hal

Jerry

I was referring to the closing and dispersion sale of the South Bend Co. Leblond must have bought the name and are re tagging imports.
Did you happen to ask Leblond where they were having the machines made?

Hal
Parts are coming from mixed sources (read US and imports) but the machine is still the engineering marvel that it was in earlier times and is still superior to any ChiCom lathe you can name!!!!

Leblond is still offering repair parts for the Heavy 10's on parts that do wear like cross feed nuts and such.

What is your problem with South Bend???
 
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