DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
Vudoo V22S SS BR/F Class Action
There's a lot of info coming down the pike on this....
MB
There's a lot of info coming down the pike on this....
MB
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Vudoo V22S SS/F Class Action
- Thread starter DEFTI RIMFIRE
- Start date
tonykharper
Well-known member
There's a lot of info coming down the pike on this....
MB
OK, I'll bite. Locking lugs?
TKH
marks_a18138
New member
It the new body for the V22-s BR action...3 lug, 60 deg
DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
tonykharper
Well-known member
I don't know how far you are down the rabbit hole you are with your new Bench rest action but let me make a request.
Make the tenon 3/4 inch with a 16 thread.
The reason is almost all other Custom Bench rest actions have this tenon. If yours has the same all the previous barrel can be refitted to your action.
The most popular barrel contour in RFBR is the .900 straight. Followed by .875s and .850. None of these can be used on the 40X tenon.
If you keep the 40X tenon all of these barrels will find homes but on other actions.
TKH
DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
Well, first, it's not a rabbit hole, it's an actual design and not just something I did because others do it or because someone arrogantly says it has to be a certain way. I happen to have my own barrels that are .900 and recently received a shipment of Muller blanks and can get any other barrel I want, and yes, they're .900 also. I'm not particularly concerned about the other barrels not fitting my action and I don't want them to; I'm sure they'll do just fine on the few other actions that use the smaller tenon.
Thanks Tony,
MB
DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
Although the the thread specs are similar (1.062X16), it's not a 40X tenon, it's a V22S tenon.
MB
marks_a18138
New member
This is how I become poor! This will make Vudoo 4&5!
DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
marks_a18138
New member
Mike don't worry, you keep doing what you have been doing! Ruling the 22 PRS world with 1000's of top of the line rifles in peoples hands! Now the 2nd fastest growing rimfire sport in the Nation is Smallbore F-class that requires BR accuracy and you guys will fill that gap!
DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
Not to worry, many told me I'd never make the original V22 successful because it wasn't like what everyone else was doing and now companies are copying it for a cash grab. I have a huge appreciation for the F Class crowd and I'm not focused on BR the way BR is now, I'm focusing on what BR can and should be.
MB
tonykharper
Well-known member
MB,
I had no idea you would take my "down the rabbit hole" comment as critical or negative. If you found it offensive in any way I assure you it wasn't meant to be.
RFBR has always had many shooters that prefer to fit their own barrels.
If you have chosen not to support that, so be it.
I have enjoyed the sport of shooting most of my life. Being with and around shooters is as rewarding as shooting near perfect scores.
But in this sport you run into some big personalities, and some even bigger egos.
You, being a manufacturer of products that we use in this sport makes me have great respect for what you do.
But your comment about focusing on what bench rest "should be" is a bit rich coming from someone that doesn't actively participate in the sport.
Perhaps I'm reading you wrong, maybe you mean you hope to bring something to RFBR that will make overall improvements.
If that is the case, I will applaud your efforts when they come to fruition.
As for the 1.062 tenon you can call it a V22S tenon or anything you like, but remember Remington was using it decades before you were born.
I look forward to your post as you progress.
TKH
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DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
Tony, I appreciate your response and clearing up the intent of your post. As I've stated here before, the BR world has been less than welcoming and primarily arrogant and condescending to new people. I've experienced this at matches and online and I have no desire to be a part of it. As it stands now, one of the "egos" you mention now spends an inordinate amount of time talking to himself online as he struggles for relevance while he could be working to pay things forward for the benefit of the sport, as is the case for many of the "personalities and egos." My "should be" reference is about doing this for a huge number of people that are not interested in this clique-ish environment.
As for the tenon, I believe I stated the actual thread specs, 1.062 X 16, are similar to the 40X, but I didn't say I was doing that before Remington. The intent of my comment was to impart that a 40X tenon won't fit a V22S and vice versa. If you guys believe that anything 1.062 X 16 is a 40X tenon, then this is clearly part of the problem. In addition, how can you claim to know when I was born?
From here, I and others will get back to the reason I created the thread, which is about a new action. If you have sincere questions and/or general interest, that's great, I'd be glad to have a dialogue that involves the reasons and attributes of the features and benefits of the V22S.
Thanks Tony,
MB
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tonykharper
Well-known member
Mike,
It seems we aren't going to be able to communicate on a forum. Perhaps if we are face to face at a match we probably would not have this problem.
No, that is not a threat.
I simply mean you and I would be able to see each other and read each others intent better and that would lead to better communication.
I don't know who damaged you about RFBR but we would all benefit if you could just let it go.
I have no doubt you have much to offer, and our small community sorely needs all the help we can get.
Thank you for what you do.
TKH
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Mike, with all due respect, arrogance and condescension goes both ways. We have all done it and to be honest, it doesn't help any of us.
I say this as someone who has questioned you before, but I also put my money where my mouth is in that I bought one of your rifles (Apparition in MPA stock) so I can speak first hand about it and form my own opinion. I just got it a few weeks ago and haven't had a chance to put it through its paces, but it seems to be a nice gun. I realize it isn't designed for BR but I love 22's and wanted a rifle to shoot informal NRL22 with my buddies. I expect it will do quite well.
As stated before, the BR group is a skeptical bunch. A lot has been tried and there always will be doubt until something is proven. I can say that if your execution changes the game, BR shooters will be jumping to buy your products regardless of if they have to buy new barrels or not. As the age old saying goes "it's now what you say, it's how you say it" comes to mind.
I realize you have a negative view of the BR group as a whole, but it doesn't help your cause to be condescending to someone (TKH) who all know to be a true sportsman of the game and someone who isn't against trying anything to improve his game.
As a business, I can understand targeting the largest group possible, but it doesn't seem to make sense to alienate an entire group of shooters who could be customers. Yes, we will question and maybe even dismiss most everything until we see it work in our sport. Then again, like I said, if someone uses one of your actions (or complete BR rifles if you decide to offer them) and starts killing it in BR, it won't matter, others will jump on the train. There is no shortage of willingness to spend money to give ourselves the best chance of winning regardless of who makes it.
I think most of us do wish you well in your quest for perfection regardless of how you get there. Once you do, we will jump on board no doubt. Until that time, we will be skeptical. Not in your engineering capabilities, but simply the results of the platform as it relates to BR. I realize you may not care about that, but for those of us that do, we will wait and see what comes of it.
Best of luck.
I say this as someone who has questioned you before, but I also put my money where my mouth is in that I bought one of your rifles (Apparition in MPA stock) so I can speak first hand about it and form my own opinion. I just got it a few weeks ago and haven't had a chance to put it through its paces, but it seems to be a nice gun. I realize it isn't designed for BR but I love 22's and wanted a rifle to shoot informal NRL22 with my buddies. I expect it will do quite well.
As stated before, the BR group is a skeptical bunch. A lot has been tried and there always will be doubt until something is proven. I can say that if your execution changes the game, BR shooters will be jumping to buy your products regardless of if they have to buy new barrels or not. As the age old saying goes "it's now what you say, it's how you say it" comes to mind.
I realize you have a negative view of the BR group as a whole, but it doesn't help your cause to be condescending to someone (TKH) who all know to be a true sportsman of the game and someone who isn't against trying anything to improve his game.
As a business, I can understand targeting the largest group possible, but it doesn't seem to make sense to alienate an entire group of shooters who could be customers. Yes, we will question and maybe even dismiss most everything until we see it work in our sport. Then again, like I said, if someone uses one of your actions (or complete BR rifles if you decide to offer them) and starts killing it in BR, it won't matter, others will jump on the train. There is no shortage of willingness to spend money to give ourselves the best chance of winning regardless of who makes it.
I think most of us do wish you well in your quest for perfection regardless of how you get there. Once you do, we will jump on board no doubt. Until that time, we will be skeptical. Not in your engineering capabilities, but simply the results of the platform as it relates to BR. I realize you may not care about that, but for those of us that do, we will wait and see what comes of it.
Best of luck.
DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
Thank you Tony, I agree 100% that written text loses context and I would find value and enjoy having a chance to sit face to face. I would welcome it if ever given the chance.
MB
Oklahoma Jim
Member
I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with RFBR! There are a few jackasses online that might sour folks on our sport, but that's certainly not the rule. Most folks in our sport are gracious and helpful to any and all that want to shoot with us. Please come out and shoot with us at any of the big matches and look me up. I'll be happy to share what little I know and help to introduce you to many of the other great folks in the game.
DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
Thanks Hozzie, I appreciate your words here and I get the skeptical part, I'm a huge skeptic myself, which is why I go down the paths I do. However, the important part about being skeptical is not failing to have a desire to understand. A skeptic that doesn't ask valid questions is someone that never grows. The absence of this desire leads to what I've seen and experienced and admittedly, I'm now jaded to a community that tends to put themselves on a pedestal.
Yes, I understand "everything" has been tried in BR, but to what extent? How many variables have been taken into account and what data exists that can effectively communicate an outcome? And, if there is data, what does the data identify that can improve an outcome? What technology and processes that exist now can influence performance in a positive way? These are the areas I focus on, but doing so and communicating it is what has brought about the arrogance I speak of.
In short, I don't like being sideways with anyone and I have A LOT of respect for TKH, but I was asked no questions relative to the early posts in this thread. Instead, it jumped right to the place it always jumps to and that is, no desire to understand why something was done differently. So, how does this help advance anything? Basically, it doesn't, because the community demands to be understood before seeking to understand. I've watched it for a long time and can say, while it may appear I have excluded a certain community, it can also be said that a certain community has excluded others that would love to be a part of BR because of "skepticism." So, yes, it goes both ways and I'm the type to call it out.
TKH, I apologize for coming across in an arrogant way, it's not how I like/prefer to communicate. My hope is, we all learn something from this as we move on.
MB
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DEFTI RIMFIRE
Vudoo Head Skunk
Thanks Jim, I'm looking forward to getting out with a rifle very soon and will certainly look you up.
MB