vertical VS horizontal

J

jaybic

Guest
Hello fellas,

I am just wondering about the correct formula when you are dealing with vertical/horizontal.

As I understand it, if you are getting vertical, you lower the powder charge and if shots go horizontal, you need to add powder. Is the correct or is it the other way around and you add powder to remove vertical and slowthe load down to get rid of horizontal?

Thanks for the input.:)

Jamie
 
I think that in many cases if one is not at top safe pressure, and there is more room in the case, that you might consider adding powder to resolve a vertical problem....but there is more to it, depending on the rifle stock situation and the rest, and how the rifle is being handled, a vertical problem, or horizontal for that matter, could have nothing to do with the load. What sort of rifle, rest, and shooting style, and are you shooting over flags?
 
Jamie ...

jaybic said:
Hello fellas. I am just wondering about the correct formula when you are dealing with vertical/horizontal. As I understand it, if you are getting vertical, you lower the powder charge and if shots go horizontal, you need to add powder. Is the correct or is it the other way around and you add powder to remove vertical and slow the load down to get rid of horizontal? Thanks for the input.:) Jamie
Click to expand...

Basically, you can tune out vertical with either a tuner or increasing or decreasing the powder charge. Once you're in tune vertically, horizontal can be eliminated by coordinating the movement of the trigger finger with the movement of wind flags or, once again, a tuner.

My friend Gene Beggs has written extensively on tuning with both powder charges and the tuner and can be accessed by using the search function located above. :)
 
Jaybic
There is a mathematical formula specifically to deal with this. But it is very complicated and requires an understanding of the NEW MATH.


PS what if tune could also cause horizontal dispersion and what if wind could cause vertical dispersion?????????
 
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jaybic said:
Hello fellas,

I am just wondering about the correct formula when you are dealing with vertical/horizontal.

As I understand it, if you are getting vertical, you lower the powder charge and if shots go horizontal, you need to add powder. Is the correct or is it the other way around and you add powder to remove vertical and slowthe load down to get rid of horizontal?

Thanks for the input.:)

Jamie
Click to expand...

IMO you CHANGE the powder charge (or tuner) to correct vertical... not necessarily UP nor DOWN.....

Horizontal indicates other problems.

al
 
If a barrel can vibrate up and down out of resonance then why can't it vibrate left and right out of resonance?
 
If the internal curve of a barrel has been clocked to 6 or 12 o'clock, the primary forces that create a dominance of vertical vibration are the rebound of the barrel from being pulled downward, relative to the stock and action, as the recoiling rifle rotates around its center of gravity, which is below the CL of the barrel. There is no corresponding loading and unloading that takes place in the horizontal plane. No, barrels don't just go up and down, but they have more happening to make them do so to a greater extent.
 
I believe one of the tuning problems misconceptions in Benchrest is that Only Vertical Matters. Sure....vertical is important....but....so is horizontal. Saying that horizontal comes only from gun handling, benchsetup, misreading the wind is bad JUJU !!! I'll give you my idea on the two most important factors in tuning a rifle.....Barrel and Ignition....without those two...your SOL !!! I just recently set a friend of mine up with a proven used gun (that I thought about buying for myself). He wanted a new gun (just like most people...new must mean better) but I argued and argued with him until I won and now....he the smartest shooter and reloader you'll ever meet, at least in his own mind. I've created a monster...for now...reality will come in as soon as this barrel goes....he don't believe that either for now. When I received this gun in and tested it, it was throwing shots in the horizontal, badly. The vertical wasn't to bad and most people would chalk it up to missing the wind but in reality, the shots were just to far out. I took the bolt apart and looked at the cocking piece on the firing pin...nothing seemed unusual, looked along the edges of the action where it slides...something looked just a little funny. A little more rub on one side than the other. I took a very fine diamond file and ran it done the sides of the cocking piece on the firing pin, BINGO, very slight burr that I couldn't see. Now with the same best load as before, the gun shoots about the same vertical (a little better now by a third of a bullet) but stacks them with no horizontal. Why exactly, heck, I don't know but this thing will shoot through the wind better than anything I have touched in the last year or so. AND...you can advance tune without windflags...but that is another story....one that took me years and a very determined gunsmith to teach me.

Since I worked with this gun and in general...been shooting like a turd starting at the shamrock, I talked to my gunsmith and he told me to send him my bolts. I think I know what the problem has been now.

Now, lets talk about the other thing I mentioned besides ignition....BARRELS...to quote my gunsmith. Once you have a proven gun, most of your tuning can be done with an action wrench.

Hovis
 
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Thanks for the replies fellas.

The reason that I am asking is that a guy i know just kinda made a blanket statement that said, and this is nearly verbatim, if you get horizontal the load is too hot and vertical, its to slow. He said he was told this by an old fella that was at one time years ago, a champion BR shooter.

I guess I just thought, perhaps mistakenly, that it was exactly opposite(I thought I learned that here on this site actually) and it was in regards to factory varmint rifles and misinformation is bad information so I was hoping guys more "in the know" that I might set us both straight. I guess I thought that perhaps he had it backwards and left ALOT of other variables and reasons out. Just makes sense to me that if you want to know something about accuracy, hunting grade or otherwise, you might as well ask the most accuracy minded shooters in the world. I think they live on this site.;)

Thanks again,

Jaybic
 
Jay,

Like with most things in the world, there are rules of thumb and always exceptions to the rules of thumb. Get the Precision Shooting Magazine (August issue I believe) and read Tony and Faye Boyers interview. A lot of good info there. Also, a while back Joe Krupa had an article about tuning and BR. Very good reading.

Hovis
 
Tune

When you all get this figured out, let me know. I am heading out for The NBRSA Nationals next Tuesday Night, and it will be great to know that all of my tuning woes can be solved by some "timeses" and "go-in-das".:D.......jackie
 
Jackie,

I should have an answer for you by then, no problem. I will also let you in on my new fool proof wind-reading formula. :D Keep in mind, your asking the village idiot for advice on your way to the NBRSA shoot. That is funny tho.

Seriously, I really do appreciate the efforts and advice and I am going to try to get that PS article and see if I can learn something.

Thank you all for your patience and good luck at the Nationals Jackie.

Jamie
 
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