Tuner opinions?
- Thread starter TrxR
- Start date
Is there any instruction sheets out there for the Ezell tuners so i could see what the install and setup is like ?
FBecigneul
Member
I’m using Beggs tuners on my HV .30 caliber score rifle. Gene sends instructions with his tuner.
I Agree with John.....
Mike Ezell is a good fella and will be glad to help you out. Just my experience with him. WD
Mike Ezell is a good fella and will be glad to help you out. Just my experience with him. WD
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I think
Lighter tuners are the right way to go. I've watched John Cascarino tune his rifle on the fly with his Beggs tuner and win the match, easy peasy.
We have been using 3 OZ or less for years to tune HV barrels, behind the muzzle tuners. What has been missing is the knowledge of how much to move them until recent years. I saw a post the other day from someone who was tuning his barrel with less then 3 OZ and as I recall, a behind the muzzle tuner. It seems those who are offering tuners for sale have gone the opposite direction but there was never a need to.
Pete
Lighter tuners are the right way to go. I've watched John Cascarino tune his rifle on the fly with his Beggs tuner and win the match, easy peasy.
We have been using 3 OZ or less for years to tune HV barrels, behind the muzzle tuners. What has been missing is the knowledge of how much to move them until recent years. I saw a post the other day from someone who was tuning his barrel with less then 3 OZ and as I recall, a behind the muzzle tuner. It seems those who are offering tuners for sale have gone the opposite direction but there was never a need to.
Pete
J
Jim Pag
Guest
Most popular tuners
The most popular tuner in IBS short range VFS is Sid Goodling's tuner by far. I have a Beggs, 7 Ezell's, 7 Goodlings, a Jackie Schmidt, and I use to own a Borden. By far Mike Ezell's tuner is the easiest and most user friendly to use out of the ones that I mentioned and it also the heaviest right at about 7 oz. The others are all right about a hair over 4 oz. The Ezell tuner has I believe has 9 chambers fill with powdered tungsten disulfide so you can remove powder from the chamber to lighten it up. IMO the best tuners are the ones that extend past the muzzle. By the way Pete I will whole heartedly disagree with you. Can u tell me what brand of tuner weighs 3oz or less? I don't know of any. Also I see u argue with Mike a lot on tuners. Mike forgot more about tuners than you'll ever know and that's a fact. The first tuner that I owned was a Beggs. It came on a used rifle that I bought. I didn't know how to use it and Gene sent me some instructions. Well the instructions were wrong. It said to move the tuner 1/4 of a turn and you can go in and out of tune a few times moving it that amount. Even Gene Beggs learned from Ezell if I recall that he was wrong in this thinking about how much u should move the tuner. We can all learn from one another and that example proves it. Bottom line it doesn't matter which tuner u use. Look at Jarvais. He used a Borden tuner for years which is nothing more than a 4.2 oz piece of brass that sits behind the muzzle. He switched over to an Ezell tuner maybe last year. He hasn't done any better or worse with either tuner. He's just a good shooter that knows how to tune a rifle to where it's at it's full potential and he's the best around here at reading flags and pulling the trigger at the right time and that's a fact. He can beat u with a tuner on a barrel or a barrel with no tuner.
The most popular tuner in IBS short range VFS is Sid Goodling's tuner by far. I have a Beggs, 7 Ezell's, 7 Goodlings, a Jackie Schmidt, and I use to own a Borden. By far Mike Ezell's tuner is the easiest and most user friendly to use out of the ones that I mentioned and it also the heaviest right at about 7 oz. The others are all right about a hair over 4 oz. The Ezell tuner has I believe has 9 chambers fill with powdered tungsten disulfide so you can remove powder from the chamber to lighten it up. IMO the best tuners are the ones that extend past the muzzle. By the way Pete I will whole heartedly disagree with you. Can u tell me what brand of tuner weighs 3oz or less? I don't know of any. Also I see u argue with Mike a lot on tuners. Mike forgot more about tuners than you'll ever know and that's a fact. The first tuner that I owned was a Beggs. It came on a used rifle that I bought. I didn't know how to use it and Gene sent me some instructions. Well the instructions were wrong. It said to move the tuner 1/4 of a turn and you can go in and out of tune a few times moving it that amount. Even Gene Beggs learned from Ezell if I recall that he was wrong in this thinking about how much u should move the tuner. We can all learn from one another and that example proves it. Bottom line it doesn't matter which tuner u use. Look at Jarvais. He used a Borden tuner for years which is nothing more than a 4.2 oz piece of brass that sits behind the muzzle. He switched over to an Ezell tuner maybe last year. He hasn't done any better or worse with either tuner. He's just a good shooter that knows how to tune a rifle to where it's at it's full potential and he's the best around here at reading flags and pulling the trigger at the right time and that's a fact. He can beat u with a tuner on a barrel or a barrel with no tuner.
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Let me see if I've got this right. You watched one guy tune his rifle with a 3 oz. tuner and you KNOW that's the way to go. The heavier one's aren't needed. WOW. I guess Mike's tuner isn't done right.
As usual, I'm gonna' take this an entirely different direction
In my opinion MUCH more important than "whose tuner" is the question "whose installation of said tuner"
There is 1 RIGHT WAY and 50 wrong ways to install a tuner.
Nearly anyone's tuner can be and in many cases, most times IS, mis-installed
If an Ezell tuner is installed by a competent machinist, one who is ACTUALLY capable of hitting all the numbers, dimensions and angles (YES, angles!) on the print, then you can basically just screw 'er on and run.......altho I'd still opt for epoxy all said and done.
It is my considered opinion that loose, poorly installed rattly tuners have done more to damage the reputation of the entire concept than anything else tuner-related.
I have lost 3 matches specifically because I'm a dumb-ass who took many forehead slaps to realize "screwing on a tuner because "it can't hurt" is STUPID!"
Tuners, like every other component must be installed correctly or they do more harm than good!
rant OFF
al
mwezell
Mike Ezell
As usual, I'm gonna' take this an entirely different direction
In my opinion MUCH more important than "whose tuner" is the question "whose installation of said tuner"
There is 1 RIGHT WAY and 50 wrong ways to install a tuner.
Nearly anyone's tuner can be and in many cases, most times IS, mis-installed
If an Ezell tuner is installed by a competent machinist, one who is ACTUALLY capable of hitting all the numbers, dimensions and angles (YES, angles!) on the print, then you can basically just screw 'er on and run.......altho I'd still opt for epoxy all said and done.
It is my considered opinion that loose, poorly installed rattly tuners have done more to damage the reputation of the entire concept than anything else tuner-related.
I have lost 3 matches specifically because I'm a dumb-ass who took many forehead slaps to realize "screwing on a tuner because "it can't hurt" is STUPID!"
Tuners, like every other component must be installed correctly or they do more harm than good!
rant OFF
al
Very true...you do want a good fitment. That said, there will still be movement at every joint in the system, at high frequencies. That's how bolts can and do work loose in a high frequency environment, even after being torqued. You certainly don't want it flopping around out there...Been there, and like you, I didn't like what that did to the target very much! Some movement is simply inevitable with any tuner design that I've ever seen, short of welding it to the barrel. The movement I'm referring to happens at the higher frequencies that the barrel sees. Low frequency vibration...like your loose tuner, is catastrophic to accuracy. Higher frequencies...not nearly as much, to the point that I'm convinced that once they reach a certain point, they either don't hurt us or simply get lost in the noise.
But rather than fight inevitable high frequency movement, I embrace it and incorporate several aspects of my tuner that manage as well as mitigate both high and lower frequencies. The particle dampening is a part of it but just as importantly, the attachment method it incorporates. Properly adjusted and installed, the threads are loaded and the tuner is supported at 4 points...one behind the threads and 3 on the threads.
Are you ever gonna buy one, so you can see? Lol! It's a very good design and a lot of work went into its design and yes, attachment and associated movement was a big factor in why I choose to make them like they are. Again, some movement at any joint is inevitable, be it pinch bolts, washers locked together or whatever, short of welding it solid. The key is consistent repeatability and management of the tiniest movement...even on perfect threads.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I didn't single him out
The Buckys tuner is a beyond the muzzle tuner and heavy as well as the Goodling but the weight of the Goodling tuners vary. I'v seen small ones of them on HBR barrels.
All tuners work. It's just weight. I've mentioned that the Beggs has no Snubber feature just to poke a little fun. It's all about weight on any kinda rifle or barrel one can mention.
Its the knowledge gained about using them that has made Tuners more usable, not the brand or weight. It's just about knowledge, pretty much.
Me, I don't use one except on RF rifles. In the weather we have where I shoot the most my 30 BR stays in tune all day, most of the time. If it doesn't the others follow so we remain on equal footing. None of the HBR rifles I shoot with have tuners, as of yet. I use to use one but found it more frustrating than useful so I have threaded barrels. Most of y'all don't understand shooting 6 power rifles so there is no point in discussing why I decided what I did. The real challenge in the Benchrest Sports is shooting good scores with 6X magnification. It is what I have always loved doing and why I keep at it.
Pete
The Buckys tuner is a beyond the muzzle tuner and heavy as well as the Goodling but the weight of the Goodling tuners vary. I'v seen small ones of them on HBR barrels.
All tuners work. It's just weight. I've mentioned that the Beggs has no Snubber feature just to poke a little fun. It's all about weight on any kinda rifle or barrel one can mention.
Its the knowledge gained about using them that has made Tuners more usable, not the brand or weight. It's just about knowledge, pretty much.
Me, I don't use one except on RF rifles. In the weather we have where I shoot the most my 30 BR stays in tune all day, most of the time. If it doesn't the others follow so we remain on equal footing. None of the HBR rifles I shoot with have tuners, as of yet. I use to use one but found it more frustrating than useful so I have threaded barrels. Most of y'all don't understand shooting 6 power rifles so there is no point in discussing why I decided what I did. The real challenge in the Benchrest Sports is shooting good scores with 6X magnification. It is what I have always loved doing and why I keep at it.
Pete
J
Jim Pag
Guest
Sid made 2 tuners, one was a LV with on a 8.812x32 thread and the one that I have weighs 5.3oz and a HV on a .937x32 thread and all 6 that I own weigh exactly the same at 4.2oz. I've seen Cascarino lose matches because he constantly is turning that thing all around to the point where he got fed up and took it off. He's told me a number of times that he shouldn't have touched it as much as he did. Even the best shooters get used some HARD as they say up here. Well to each is own Pete. I don't like 6X because there are very few shooters to shoot against. If you like shooting against 6 or 7 shooters (that's on a good day) then have at it. My favorite thing to do Pete is to experiment. That's why I have so many rifles in 10 different calibers. I just like shooting different rifles. I'll never be a good shooter like Jarvais because I really don't take this game serious enough. He would never do what I did on Sunday, fireforming new brass at a match. I came in 6th out of 13 which is not that good but I really don't care. I shot the best that I could for that day and it wasn't good enough but I had a good time doing it. I'll always be just a fair shooter at best because I feel that my flag reading ability is just so so. I don't make excuses by saying there was something wrong with the rifle. I know when there's a problem with the rifle like at last years states in Augusta. I shot 38 rounds in the W/U and they were all over the place so I left. Come to find out the mercury recoil reducer in the stock was moving around. I heard one guy Sunday explaining to a bunch of fellow shooters why he did so bad at the CT States. He said his that when this throat wore he's have to put 3 thousands more jam on his bullet but this time it was off by 15 thousands so he said he loaded and went to his local range and put all of them in one hole. This is a story I hear from this shooter often. Well his one hole combo finished behind me. This just proves to me what I knew long ago. Even if your shooting small groups consistently, if you are holding on the wrong spot when u pull that trigger all the one whole groups doesn't matter at that particular moment. Even though we don't speak to each other anymore I do respect Randy as a shooter and the fact that he doesn't make excuses when he doesn't shoot good. He's one of the very few that will tell u he screwed up and not blame his equipment each and every time.
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Ohhh yeahhh, I will..... but I just did see your installation pixture I SAW all the anti-wobble aspects you've incorporated even though I've never laid hide nor eyeball on one of your devices
I will buy one, and I will put it on right, and I WILL also friggin' Rocksett the bugger.
I . . G E T . . I T
f i n a l l y . . . . . .
Been fightin' with these stupid barrel attachment devices since't Calfee were a pup
+1 for Mike's tuners.
I have them on my 30BR VFS rifle (shot 500-30x last time out), and on both my LV and HV group rifles.
I have only been playing with them @ 1 1/2 seasons, but have convinced myself that they work and best of all are repeatable.
I am playing with a new profile on the LV sort of a modified Palma contour. Finishes at 23-24" and weighs 80 oz with the Ezell tuner.
I really feel the longer more "flexible" barrel allows for an easier more predictable tune.
So far so good 1st in Spt, 4th in LV at the 100yd portion of the Cal State shooting the lighter profile.
I had a little vertical show up late morning went in 1/2 a line and problem solved.
Oh and by the way I preload, and have for years. Mike's tuner was the final piece to the puzzle.
One mans experience, worth what I charge.
Greg
I have them on my 30BR VFS rifle (shot 500-30x last time out), and on both my LV and HV group rifles.
I have only been playing with them @ 1 1/2 seasons, but have convinced myself that they work and best of all are repeatable.
I am playing with a new profile on the LV sort of a modified Palma contour. Finishes at 23-24" and weighs 80 oz with the Ezell tuner.
I really feel the longer more "flexible" barrel allows for an easier more predictable tune.
So far so good 1st in Spt, 4th in LV at the 100yd portion of the Cal State shooting the lighter profile.
I had a little vertical show up late morning went in 1/2 a line and problem solved.
Oh and by the way I preload, and have for years. Mike's tuner was the final piece to the puzzle.
One mans experience, worth what I charge.
Greg
FBecigneul
Member
Really??!!
How do you explain this?
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?101727-Kudos-John-Cascarino!
jackie schmidt
New member
A friend of mine had a barrel that another person had threaded for one of Mike's tuners but had failed to Machine the straight section that the stabilizing O-ring fits over. I checked the barrel up for him and added that fit.
Mike's tuners are well made and well engineered. I prefer a one piece with a "snubber", but if I did not use my own tuners, I would not hesitate to use Mike's.
Mike's tuners are well made and well engineered. I prefer a one piece with a "snubber", but if I did not use my own tuners, I would not hesitate to use Mike's.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Thank you sir! That friend of yours sure has been shooting better of late. I don't know if this has anything to do with it or not but he has stepped it up a lot.
Got any pictures of your tuners? Are they available anywhere?