Tuner expert interpreter...Lynn equivalent

D

Don Stith

New member
We used to have a tuner expert that spoke in riddles. Then Lynn showed up to explain in a straight forward manner what the riddler was trying to say. Agree or not, it was understandable and useful.
We have had several attempts at serious mathematical explanations of how and why tuners work
I graduated from engineering school 47 years ago so have forgotten all that stuff.
Now we have Martin. He has convinced a number of people that he really can tune their rifle. He seems to write using English words; but they are assembled in a way that I have no clue what he is saying. Just hope another Lynn type will show up to translate whatever language Martin is using. I really would like to learn how to tune.
Don
 
Martin
I am serious and do not intend to insult your knowledge. However, I read your posts and even after several re-reads, have no clue what you are saying. My math skills have died from lack of use. My hearing is gone. But I firmly believe I can still read and comprehend even fairly complex dissertations. Don't know where the disconnect is. I hope it is only me.
 
Its not you Don, some folks know a lot about something but cant convey it in written word, martin falls in that category.I have been reading his postings and they read like someone who is drunk, really drunk.I think some of it is he doesnt realize we havent read every post he has ever made and he is referencing something in some earlier posts but I am clueless as to what.
 
I don't know if he falls in that category or not. He can't convey something but does he know a lot about it? Doesn't seem to really. Just blows and blows and never makes the leaves move. I think he did good once and that made him, in his mind, an expert. Fifteen minutes of fame, a mover and shaker and all that jazz. There are plenty of those. Then again maybe he's just drunk, very drunk.
 
Interpritor

It appears to me that Dan Killough uncerstands what Martin is saying. Perhaps Dan will chime in.

I sure hate the rude remarks and bashing of a guy who is doing his best to express himself and is sharing what he has apparently learned. Why not give him a chance to teach us something. Hving a hughty attitude will only shut him off.
 
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Pete Wass said:
It appears to me that Dan Killough uncerstands what Martin is saying. Perhaps Dan will chime in.

I sure hate the rude remarks and bashing of a guy who is doing his best to express himself and is sharing what he has apparently learned. Why not give him a chance to teach us something. Hving a hughty attitude will only shut him off.
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I agree Pete, Martin has explained on the other thread to Dan or for that matter anyone who is willing to try it, I can say that Martin has valid points in his process, it may not be conveyed properly but I have to give him props for standing by his results.

Joe
 
martin hammond said:
Don Stith, only problem Lynn's test was 100% inaccurate. if it was accurate no one would be using a tuner as the smallest groupings were without. those results can never be repeated. any test is only as good as the info entered no matter how eloquently stated. garbage in is garbage out.
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Martin
I don't know which test you are referencing but using Bill Calfee's tuner guidance I just won the NBRSA 1,000 Yard Nationals this last weekend in Sacramento using a tuner I bought off of Bob Collins on this very forum.
I understood Bill's posts but have no idea what you are talking about in your postings.I have worked on waves/waveshapes for over 22 years and can pretty much follow from experience what someone without the correct words is saying.
Waterboy aka Lynn
 
I have not been shooting benchrest very long at all. I would never take advise from someone that makes it appear they are trying to dazzle people with their perceived thoughts. I am not an attorney, but deal with them every day. Sometimes they get a little confusing, but I still know what they're talking about.
 
You know Don, I'm like you, I need clear direction. It would be nice if someone would give step-by-step instructions, without riddles, without experiments and without poor grammer/punctuation. And without theory, I don't care about theory. Pretend I'm a baby and never shot a rifle in my life and pretend I don't have fancy measuring instuments like dial indicators and torque wrenches. tell me what to do, in English, what ammo I need, what kind of tuner i need and how to do it.

Yesterday morning was one of those days you rarely see, sunny, warm and almost dead calm, i did not set out flags and only had a piece of surveyor's tape tied to the backer. i shot a 50/50 target using two different speeds black box, 1061 and 1055. put up another target and had a box of 10x at 1044 fps. i thought I had the muzzle stopped on this rifle, but man, first shot was low, not even in the bull. kept shoot same POA at the X, same POI, put about five rounds in same hole. Cranked on the scope knobs got it zeroed and then shot the target with no surprises. As I understand it, once you have the muzzle stopped, you never touch the tuner again and regardless of what ammo you use, you can shoot a 250 and never make any adjustments.

Thanks, Douglas
 
Lynn

Lynn said:
Martin
I don't know which test you are referencing but using Bill Calfee's tuner guidance I just won the NBRSA 1,000 Yard Nationals this last weekend in Sacramento using a tuner I bought off of Bob Collins on this very forum.
I understood Bill's posts but have no idea what you are talking about in your postings.I have worked on waves/waveshapes for over 22 years and can pretty much follow from experience what someone without the correct words is saying.
Waterboy aka Lynn
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Congratulations to you on your victory in the NBRSA 1,000 yard matches. Glad to see you back on the rimfire forum.
 
Pete Wass said:
It appears to me that Dan Killough uncerstands what Martin is saying. Perhaps Dan will chime in.

I sure hate the rude remarks and bashing of a guy who is doing his best to express himself and is sharing what he has apparently learned. Why not give him a chance to teach us something. Hving a hughty attitude will only shut him off.
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If my remarks seemed rude or "bashing" I appologise I didnt mean them that way.I was just remarking how his posts seem to me, they make absolutely no sense.And obviously( by the purpose of this post) by Don, he agrees with me.If he really knows what he is trying to convey then I am trying to throw him a hint as to how he is coming off.
 
I hope to have an open mind... maybe. I'm sorta a Martin fan but do not have a clue what he is sayin. I keep reading his post and just figure any day i'm gonna snap to what he is sayin!~ joe
 
martin hammond said:
here's what I'm trying to say: there is only one method to tune rifles, that method is with multiple speeds. however when tuning with multiple speeds and adjusting the tuner or adding weights you must first shoot a fouling shot. the reason being for whatever reason be it the tuners are out of round or whatever the first shot will be a flyer. always? no! but if you want to repeat what your doing yes. and once your tuner is set if you tighten the allen on the detent it can change your tune. the hopewell, calfee's water in the barrel test either don't work or tells us anything. all these match rifles I have can wait. if you are shooting in 45 degrees match rifles can wait a maximum of 45 seconds with or without a tuner. 90 degrees 120 seconds or so. and prior to tuning shoot your rifle minus the tuner if your rifle shoots a 1050 and a 1080 speed in a figure 8 pattern you can more than likely tune to a wider fps. variance. if your rifle shoots where changing speeds means you will have to change windage on your scope chansces are 20fps may be the maximum tune. next if you have more than 5oz total on the barrel there is a good chance you allready have too much weight. so if you have too much weight the next best thing to do is go to your next option and that is tuning with excessive weight and the end result of that is a more finicky rifle. a rifle tuned with the minimum weight is your #1 option. Dan and those that tune with multiple speeds see the results, sometimes those results can be amazing. next the mid-barrel tuner remove the tuner place the mid tuner to the best setting, put the tuner on no weights and adjust using multi speed ammo. the mid tuner negates some of the effects of an allready overweight tuner. should you do this every time? no but if you have no options that's just one more. I'm terrible at writing notes, what I do is make notes on all these targets and the reason I make notes on all these targets is every rifle including those of the same profile tune slightly different. whew.
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Thanks Marty!....
Short story, i do Drag Racing -it would infuriate me when someone has a problem with their car that i had already solved with mine. After telling them the solution they wouldn't listen. Finally i realized i had the problem! "Hard headed, i want to do it my way" -people are draw to the sport of drag racing!! I suspect there is some of those people in RIMFIRE !

People are honestly listening what you have to say -will hear you. Don't worry about those that want to "do it" THEIR WAY! Please try and reference what you have experienced -we want to hear. Don't think your talking to 100's of followers, your not!

If just 3 or 4 people hear you, you have done good! Try and forget the "gotchas"! Those of us that are trying to listen only want to hear about experiences and ideas, thanks joe golden
 
Martin, nicely stated. If you are using a locking set screw be careful, if it's not locked down in it's proper place, it will eventually distort the inside shaft, which will push it away enough to offset. The numbers don't always line up properly. Have you tried indexing a tuner on the barrel?

Joe
 
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you must be flying through that book. did you learn how to put
together a good spam sammich yet?
 
martin hammond said:
next, and justathought you will love this, page 64 mirage!!!OH REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sorry Marty, I don't have a copy of the book. I'm sure Bill Calfee has a great deal of information in the book but $50 was more than I was willing to pay. Besides from what I understand it's the PS stuff and I have that but I wouldn't know which article is page 64.

I would like to ask you one thing. We know Bill Calfee's record, so it's obvious that he's right on a lot of things. In other words, you don't get lucky that often, it has to be skill. Your record on the other hand does not seem to exist. In reading and listening to others your only claim to fame is you beat a Calfee rifle once and I could be wroing on this but from what I understand the other shooter had a 249 and quite a bit higher X count than you. You had a 250 and a 250 beats a 249 everytime but the X count indicates the Calfee rifle shooter shot better than you did. If that's the case, you base your expertise on a fallacy.

So, here it is. You, or anybody else can make fun of Bill Calfee's book and there are some funny things if it is the PS stuff that's in it. I don't know if a spam sammich is in there or not but that would be funny. But until you come close to his recored, remember, it can't be luck, you just look like a petty, jealous wannabe.
 
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