Trying to learn to read wind/conditions

R

reloader243

Guest
Hi, I'm new here,just started to try target shooting. I've learned a lot on the forum and 6mmbr.com and Savageshooters.com. Everybody has been very helpful to a new shooter..(64 years young). I shoot at a couple ranges in the general area,mostly 100yd..so maybe I can learn to hit something at 200-300-1000yd?? . I shoot a Rem .280,Savage Target action w Shilen .243Ack barrel, and Savage .308 F T/R. I use a Sightron 8-32x56 LRD.Off a Hart front rest, and also off a Harris bi-pod. I'd like to try to learn something about using the wind to get my groups smaller. On a calm morning I seem to do ok...for me..Best with the.243Ack is .082, best for the .308w 168smk is .118, best with the .243WSSM is .211 w/85smk...not all the time, just when I pay attention...but always less than 1/4"....well almost always...shooting stories...you know what I mean... but the wind tears me up.I have to start somewhere to to learn about wind/conditions, hold off...etc. By myself...I just get confused...(old age)?? I reload myself..found it has to be as precise as when I built racing engines..I love load work...dumb I guess
Any help will be greatly appreciated...Thanks Rick...New Berlin,Pa
 
Windflags, windflags and WINDFLAGS!!!! :)

Don't leave home without 'em.

IMO you'd be best of all served if you'd drag that arsenal over to a Benchrest Match and check it out. See the flags in action, maybe even try some groups. There's no need to worry about competition or pressure but you WILL learn more in one day than in 5yrs of shooting randomly.

Bring a spotting scope. Heck, bring a spotting scope and don't even shoot! Just watching you'll learn a ton.

al


BTW, there's a section on windflags in the ads here on BRC. Homepage will get you going.
 
Reloader243...Man your question is the "$64" question...these forums have had this same question asked as if it were "one answer applies to all"...:eek::eek:
Wind reading skills are learned in the "school of hard knocks"...the easy money is to find a range and attend a shooting school that covers shooting the conditions...these schools are held in the east,west and gulf coast from time to time, and the kings of benchrest actually hold class on the art of wind reading skills..aka Tony Boyer and others..
If you consider how much you will spend on bullets, powder, primers and worn out barrels, you would be way ahead to spend the money to travel to and attend one of these schools..in my opinion..:)
 
Reloader ...

Al is absolutely correct. You need to be able to see what the wind is doing between the end of your barrel and the target. The only way I know of doing that is through the use of wind flags. Without them we're shooting blind.

Recently I showed a new shooter how helpful they are. He had just purchased a new custom PPC from a well known gunsmith. But had no flags. I introduced myself and asked how he was shooting. He said not so well. I asked if he had wind flags in the car and he so no. He asked what they were. I said they're those three things I have sitting out there on the range. I told him I would be happy to show him how they're used if he cared to watch. He said he would. I told him to stand directly behind me and the bench.

To keep things simple I pointed out how the flags were pointing in different directions as the wind blew from different directions. I showed him how sometimes they tended to all line up and said that when they did that again I was going to fire a shot a the center of the target. We watched the flags for a minute or two and he started to see the value of the flags and how they show what's going on out there. I pointed out how the flags all tended to line up when the predominant condition for the day returned. I told him I was going to wait for that condition to return and when it did I fired at the center of the target. I told him I was trying to get five bullets to print as close together as possible. After the shot I had him look through my scope. I pointed out my point of aim and where the bullet was pushed by the wind. I said we're now going to shoot four more shots when the flags lined up the same as the first, that we would again be shooting at the center of the target, and see where they print. Each time I shot I had him look through the scope at the results. He was amazed.

I was shooting pretty good and put four rounds pretty much in the same hole. The fifth was a tad to the right but still touching the others. I proceeded to shoot others at the same point of aim as the flags shifted around and had him look through the scope as the results varied with the conditions. Having him stand behind me, watching the conditions, and then viewing the results, left an impression with him. When I saw him again he told me he had ordered a set of flags.
 
This is a fun way to shoot :) There are few things more rewarding than letting a complete neophyte (or even an experienced shooter) REALLY shoot a small one or three.... REALLY see the wind.

I remember having a friend over once who had never owned a rifle, NEVER! He was a competitor, pool, table tennis, tennis, basketball, shotgun/pistol, computer gaming......dude was (is) a total gamer, just had no respect for long guns.

So I had him pull the trigger while I called the wind from behind him. It took us almost ten minutes to make a 5-shot group at 200yds. At the 6 minute mark he had four shots in one ragged hole, and he started to shake :):):)

We blew it, #5 was out a half inch but dude was HOOKED UP!!! He SAW why 5 was out....

I couldn't get him off the gun 'til dark.

He's shot both-eyes-open from day one. His peripheral collection is awesome. He's a SHOOTER.

This guy gave me a blank check and told me to get him a gun! About 8mo later he was (still is) the proud owner of a Borden 6PPC w/NF scope and all the gear......


OR, sometimes I'll catch myself going headsup when the conditions are twitchy..... I learned never to do this at a public range :rolleyes: it really bugs people to see you put one in the same hole after 2 minutes of looking around the area without so much as a GLANCE at the rifle :D


windflags man, WINDFLAGS!!!


LOL


al
 
Heads up

an older Gentleman who sometimes shoots at the events I go to shoots Heads Up all the time. It's interesting to watch him. I have tried it and it is remarkably reliable but a bit "puckery".
 
Two things

reloader243 said:
Hi, I'm new here,just started to try target shooting. I've learned a lot on the forum and 6mmbr.com and Savageshooters.com. Everybody has been very helpful to a new shooter..(64 years young). I shoot at a couple ranges in the general area,mostly 100yd..so maybe I can learn to hit something at 200-300-1000yd?? . I shoot a Rem .280,Savage Target action w Shilen .243Ack barrel, and Savage .308 F T/R. I use a Sightron 8-32x56 LRD.Off a Hart front rest, and also off a Harris bi-pod. I'd like to try to learn something about using the wind to get my groups smaller. On a calm morning I seem to do ok...for me..Best with the.243Ack is .082, best for the .308w 168smk is .118, best with the .243WSSM is .211 w/85smk...not all the time, just when I pay attention...but always less than 1/4"....well almost always...shooting stories...you know what I mean... but the wind tears me up.I have to start somewhere to to learn about wind/conditions, hold off...etc. By myself...I just get confused...(old age)?? I reload myself..found it has to be as precise as when I built racing engines..I love load work...dumb I guess
Any help will be greatly appreciated...Thanks Rick...New Berlin,Pa
Click to expand...

That might help a lot: The Windflags, as the others have said and one of those charts that shows a Z of bullet strikes inside a clock face. There is a printable copy on here somewhere. That will show you where bullets are likely to strike the target in a given wind direction. The indicator also provides a clue about using a clock face as a guide for figuring out what to do as to WHERE the flags are pointing.

Early in my shooting career Jim Goody sat me down and explained reading the wind by using a clock face and wind flags. It helped me a whole lot.

I have found that shooting beyond 100 requires a different mindset. One has to be more waware of the conversion of distances and seeing what might be about to happen.
 
Wind doping at 1000 yards

I've heard that 65 is the new 55, but I think the people saying that are 25. Anyway, I have just gotten back into competitive shooting and have been trying my hand at 1000 yards. Wind doping/reading conditions is my priority for this coming season but I am confused about how to proceed and would like some advice. I understand the importance of wind flags at the shorter ranges, but I've never seen wind flags at 1000 yard matches like I see at the short range matches and I don't see the advantage in practicing with something other than what I am going to compete with. I have access to a 1000 yard range for practice during the off-season but they don't have number boards or anything at 1000 because they just shoot "gong" matches. What should I be looking at to judge conditions under these circumstances"
Thanks
 
Thanks guys

First I want to thank each of you for responding to my question. I am started late in this addiction, but non the less it has grabbed a hold of me enough that I am eager to see where this leads me. I'll take each of your inputs and do the best I can. I had given thought to getting flags, but felt if I didn't know how to use them it would be a waste of time. I see I'm wrong...and the idea of going to an actual meet where I know no one to ask and have no knowledge of my own kinda steered me away. But I can see from this group that there are plenty of folks out there that would enjoy bringing someone new along into the sport. I did not know I could go to a meet and just shoot and watch and learn. I'll check in my area (Eastern central Pa.) for any BR meets and go at it. In the mean time I'll get some flags and try using them to see what I can learn...and start shooting at 200yd and 300yd at my local range. (Union County Sportsmans Club) I belong to the club and have shot many times onm my own there to lear to try to reload better.
Thanks again and If you see some old dude with a .243Ack Savage or his .308 having a bad time of it at the range....give him a nudge and let him know you would like to help him out...it will probably be me...Rick Stahl..New Berlin, Pa...P.S. I already have the book mentioned(The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy) by Glenn Newick...my wife got it for me this Christmas...did not read it yet except about reloading....I'll digest it asap....
 
TonyR said:
I've heard that 65 is the new 55, but I think the people saying that are 25. Anyway, I have just gotten back into competitive shooting and have been trying my hand at 1000 yards. Wind doping/reading conditions is my priority for this coming season but I am confused about how to proceed and would like some advice. I understand the importance of wind flags at the shorter ranges, but I've never seen wind flags at 1000 yard matches like I see at the short range matches and I don't see the advantage in practicing with something other than what I am going to compete with. I have access to a 1000 yard range for practice during the off-season but they don't have number boards or anything at 1000 because they just shoot "gong" matches. What should I be looking at to judge conditions under these circumstances"
Thanks
Click to expand...



Nature has wind flags too. You need to see the conditions from natures wind flags. They are there in the forms of plants, such as grass or brush. Sometimes you can see the effects of wind on low fling birds. There are others.

Find the site from the NRA that lists doping the conditions for National match events and for 1,000 yard events. You will see that you usually have three flags in long range sometimes only two flags (depending on the range). One of the big difference you will find is that shooters establish what is known as a dead wind zero for each yardage, for your rifle and load.

Here is a link that can help you. http://www.long-range.com/forums/index.php?&act=idx
 
Rick, one book that I really liked was by a gal named Nancy from prescott Az. you might want to get a copy .... I'ts a bout a simple a read as I ever found for us old farts...
her web site is www.rifleshootingbynancy.com
have a look
SST
 
At long range, you can also read the bullet trace(the swirling vapor trail) and mirage. The trace may tell you which of the 3 or 4 flags you should be paying more attention to. On a really windy day trace is so cool to watch. You see the bullet heading way off target, then in the last few hundred yards, the bullet makes it's turn and heads back towards the target. Wind reading is more than just looking at a flag and saying, that's about 5 moa of wind at this distance. Wind reading should be done before you get on the line. You want to watch for cycles of wind, were it holds velocity and direction the same the longest, so you may get off your rounds in the same condition.
 
singleshotom said:
Rick, one book that I really liked was by a gal named Nancy from prescott Az. you might want to get a copy .... I'ts a bout a simple a read as I ever found for us old farts...
her web site is www.rifleshootingbynancy.com
have a look
SST
Click to expand...

Yeahhh, this particular gal named Nancy can shoot the wings off flies standing on her hindfeet, she IS a bench :cool:


If you're ever at a range and some girl named Tompkins or Gallagher steps up and offers to shoot for quarters.....RUN AWAY!!!

:D


al
 
I particularly like the way she explains how she finds a zero condition in the wind.
She isn't talking bench shooting but i think wind reading and finding a condition is the same in all disciplines of the shooting sport.
Its a pretty good read
SST
 
If your trying to learn to call the wind find a good spot looking out window , backyard, on the roof and find a flat object to look at at least 300y, telephone poles are ok but rooftops work best and try to make sure there is a tree or something that reacts to the wind like a flag and is in the same field of view as the flat object so you dont have to keep looking back and forth.Focus your scope about 25y-100y( depending on target distance)infront of the target.This should give you a decent view of mirage. Watch the mirage off the top of the roof and just compare how fast the "waves" are "running" and which direction to the tree/flag reaction.Overtime youll be able to call based on mirage alone.
The futher the target the easier it is to read and the hotter it is the easier.So maybe try spotting around 12-2 when its hot.If its cold you probably wont see mirage.I would not become dependent on flags for wind,flags report old news.
If you want to learn to see effects of wind on a bullet get a 22mag 17hmr 22lr and go 200 or 300 and you'll see drift.i've rambled on, good luck to you sir
 
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