The 3 dimensionality of wind shows how young we are in the progress of measuring it

M

Migs

Guest
Do you all realize, or am I nuts? : We talk about wind in terms of speed and direction, but have you realized we make no mention of it's vertical component? Wind is three dimensional and current practice shows that we are still in the dark ages of wind measurement by measuring only the horizontal component and speed. For those that did not understand my comment. Your target can be on a wall and the wind may be coming from below and to the right. It's the below part we do not even consider yet! Imagine a stronger effect. If we add to this that along the bullet flight path there are various combinations of THREE DIMENSIONAL wind components, then proper math must be employed to add each of these vectors taking into consideration their effect at the given distance and bullet velocity. We still can not measure these components. Thus the best we can do now is improve the BC of the bullet and it's initial velocity.

Folks we are still at the dark ages of shooting. I envision a scope that subdivides the path to the target into 1000 segments, calculates the wind vector at each and integrates them all into the solution.

Just philosophizing.

Migs
 
i have 2 set ups that indicate left right and up down at the same time . extremely sensitive as they will indicate thermal currents in a no breeze scenario. on the other hand if it gets too breezy I can not use them as no way to damp them down. course my conventional units work just fine for those days just pick your poision tail weight wise for the ups and downs. I also watch the various vegetation if any.
 
Well, I can say this. If I am looking out over my flags and the tails go straight up, I'm not shooting.

At my home Gun Club at Tomball, they sometimes do just that.
 
I lit off a couple of shots when the tails had a bow and wish I had noticed before i shot rather than after. Don't know what causes it but every now and then a whole bunch of tails will just go straight up. Seems impossible but it ain't!
 
It's constantly changing in every direction. You can figure out the wind all day long but when the bullet leaves the barrel, anything can and will happen.

Shoot the best that you can and live with it. Less stress that way.
 
I am pretyty sure

I am pretty sure someone made what they called upie downie flags. Read about them on this site somewhere. I guess the idea never took off. No pun intended. May be now they will.
 
We see several different types of up/down flags being used in rimfire. We have made up several different types trying to get a handle on whats going on with little result. I know if I could come up with a way to accurately measure the affect of up/down push it would clean up my cards alot. I would bet that 75% or more of my missed shots are lost by the vertical effect of wind that I didnt see. Its so frustrating to have run 15 or 16 pinwheels and leak one out high,make a slight correction and leak it out the bottom. All this time with no visible change in flags. I know something changed but my flags didnt show it or I was blind to it.
Todd
 
If we are talking about reading wind in competition it's not really necessary to understand everything that's going on. In some cases there is entirely too much information to act on. Fortunately, it tends to stabilize in patterns that can be discerned and acted on. Wind flags won't always tell you when to shoot, but as Jackie said, they will tell you when not to shoot. Reading wind flags is a little like getting along with a woman. You can't always know what is causing whatever is going on in her head (or with the flags), but you should be able to learn when to keep your mouth shut (or not shoot) and wait for things to calm down. Fortunately, with women one usually has more than 10 minutes to make a decision. Never pass up an opportunity to keep your mouth shut and it costs no more to shoot poorly in the last minute than it does the first.

Rick
 
I use 4 flags at 100 and 6 at 200, and that alone is enough to keep me busy before time runs out. Yes with out a doubt there is Vertical air current down range, but it happens also at different parts of the range just like Horizontal wind current, if I wher to try and read Horizontal and vertical or any kind of Dimensional wind current down range,i Would go Cross eyed ,Ok say for example if you are shooting 200 and have 6 flags that are reading Horizontal wind and say now you put 4 more flags to read Vertical wind like the Upsey downy wind flags that rick graham used to make ,Do you think that most of us shooting bench rest have that type of photographic memory to remember which flags were horizontal and which were vertical on all 5 shots? Im talking about short range benchrest and in this sport I think that most of us shooters are over 60 and are Already Approaching some kind of dementia. For this Type of wind reading you would need some kind of high Tech Electronic wind Indicators on each flag stand that would beep on your iPhone every time the wind came back the same as before. Learn to read the wind, it’s more important than magic bullets, I think maybe
Gabe
 
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Innovations

Never stop searching for ways to advance the sport. From a comment posted on this site.some time ago,”The introduction of wind flags, during the early seventies(?), at the Super Shoot, in Ohio, is partially credited with the beginning of shrinking aggs.” , Over the years, competitors have experimented with many different wind indicator designs. That search should never end. even In a Sport where fears of future demise prevail. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

As the OP pointed out, there is still much to learn about the effects of wind on accuracy.
There is nothing wrong with a constructive discussion on the subject.


Glenn
 
Andy Cross said:
I am pretty sure someone made what they called upie downie flags. Read about them on this site somewhere. I guess the idea never took off. No pun intended. May be now they will.
Click to expand...

They are quite effective when the circumstances dictate. Ray Hill makes a nice set. Should they begin to bob up and down, shoot at your own peril.
As part of a good overall flag set they were part of two national championships with world records and a pretty good number of big match wins in rimfire BR.
 
Graham Wind Flags

Yes Graham Wind Flags makes them.
We are in the process of making a run of them.
Cost will be $85 per flag plus shipping.

You can reach us at
GrahamWindFlags@outlook.com

Thank you
Matt
 

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As I aged

it became more and more difficult for me to see all the indicators and then process what they were saying, if in fact I could ever tell. I wasn't blessed with being able to see the flags and the target through the scope at the same time so that has been an issue. I asked an eye doctor if that could be learned and he said if I had started when I was a kid, maybe!

I often wonder is less is more. Some real good shooters I have seen over the years do exceptionally well with two or three flags @ 100 and 4 @ 200.
The current best 6 power shooter in the east uses three simple flags @ 100 and 4 @ 200 and one probe I think. Another lad use to use two flags with a probe and shoot it up. Lately the best Rimfire shooter here in town uses two small flags at 50.

It helps to practice and experiment. For me now, 6 flags @ 200 or 300 is more than I can process. I either can watch about half and the two probes or all the flags and no probes. Didn't help getting my head bashed in an accident in 1980, I'm sure nor did it help not shooting CF for 6 years.

I am well aware of the vertical component. When one feels the wind hit their neck they better wait or hold waaaaay down!

Pete
 
The only solution that I can think of for wind would be fully automatic, belt fed fire!:)
 

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