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Mel Eck
Guest
Let's try this we have new shooters that need help so how do you test? Lets all learn something.
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Carp
Guest
Mel Eck,
Is this a Calfee post? questions about answers and then no answers?
Testing ammo tells me it shoots or it don't.....period. It either produces 100's or it is junk....it can shoot as many great groups as it wants but the score is the most important thing it can do for me.
carp
Is this a Calfee post? questions about answers and then no answers?
Testing ammo tells me it shoots or it don't.....period. It either produces 100's or it is junk....it can shoot as many great groups as it wants but the score is the most important thing it can do for me.
carp
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Dewight
Guest
Assuming Eley ammo, do you select lots to test by machine #, then speed? Tune the barrel first? Indoor at 25yds? Then outdoors in calm conditions with flags? Then in steady wind? Groups 1st, how many shots per group,how many groups? Need guidence. Put your opinions out there for us to consider.
Thanks,Dewight
Thanks,Dewight
I test by shooting for group size and then shooting in the wind. The difference between incredible ammo and "meh" ammo is how far the wind pushes the bullet. A tuned gun is a tuned gun, they don't care about speeds, they just don't.
Shoot a group then shoot the rest of the row, repeat. Every machine cranks out the same quality of ammo, at least in my beginner's opinion
Shoot a group then shoot the rest of the row, repeat. Every machine cranks out the same quality of ammo, at least in my beginner's opinion
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Dave Shattuck
Guest
One thing I will say is, always test your ammo at around the same ambient temperature as you are planning on using it.
I know we have no control over what we will be faced with when we get to the range. What I'm saying is, just don't go out and test ammo in the dead of winter if you live up north and expect it to the same once summer comes. It just ain't gonna happen. And, as a friend of mine found out this past summer, don't test ammo on an extremely hot day down south, then expect it to act anywhere near the same once you return home back in New England. In his case, the best shooting ammo turned out to be pure crap, and what had appeared to be crap ammo turned into 250 capable ammo. Problem was, he came home with a full case of the crap ammo and only had the remnants of what was left from the good stuff that had appeared to be crap in the heat, when in fact, once back in the cooler climates proved to be what he should have bought. A $1200+ mistake!
I shoot 3 to 5 shot groups, then once one looks right will finish it off by shooting lines.
Dave
I know we have no control over what we will be faced with when we get to the range. What I'm saying is, just don't go out and test ammo in the dead of winter if you live up north and expect it to the same once summer comes. It just ain't gonna happen. And, as a friend of mine found out this past summer, don't test ammo on an extremely hot day down south, then expect it to act anywhere near the same once you return home back in New England. In his case, the best shooting ammo turned out to be pure crap, and what had appeared to be crap ammo turned into 250 capable ammo. Problem was, he came home with a full case of the crap ammo and only had the remnants of what was left from the good stuff that had appeared to be crap in the heat, when in fact, once back in the cooler climates proved to be what he should have bought. A $1200+ mistake!
I shoot 3 to 5 shot groups, then once one looks right will finish it off by shooting lines.
Dave
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Hambone
Guest
Yowser! That's some mistake.
3-5 shot groups @ 25yds to determine what's worth taking further. Good 25 yd groups get shot at 50yds. Good 50yd groups get shoot as test targets. All out doors, as I don't shoot indoors. Ever! Way too boring.
Roger T
Member
As a Newbie in the RF arena it would help to minimize confusion (at least mine)by seperating posts for TUNER rifles and NON-Tuner rifles (I have both). A couple questions I have are 1) When you run out of your PREFERRED ammo (Tuner rifle) do you choose Speed, Machine, or Lot # to look for replacement (I realize tuner settings would probably need adjusting). 2) On a NON-Tuner rifle is it best to get as wide of variety of SPEEDS to sample then pick Lot#'s or stay in the same Speed range + or - a few FPS as has proven accurate in the past. TIA
Bill Wynne
Active member
This is the way that I do it for what it is worth. I try to eliminate as many variables as possible.
I shoot indoors out of the wind at fifty yards if possible.
I try to shoot on days that are about the same temperature as what it will be at most of the matches.
I would not change the tuner during any of this testing.
I shoot for group.
I try several different lots of ammo under the same condition.
I shoot five three shot groups.
I would clean my barrel before shooting each different ammo and then shoot three rounds of the ammo to be tested.
I throw out any group that has a flyer because it might not be the ammo.
I measure each group and average all of the averages of each lot of ammo.
Then I take the best two or maybe three lots of ammo and test them against each other.
Even with Red box Eley there is a difference between lots and this testing will show that difference.
This way of testing works for me but I sure don't win all my matches.
Concho Bill
I shoot indoors out of the wind at fifty yards if possible.
I try to shoot on days that are about the same temperature as what it will be at most of the matches.
I would not change the tuner during any of this testing.
I shoot for group.
I try several different lots of ammo under the same condition.
I shoot five three shot groups.
I would clean my barrel before shooting each different ammo and then shoot three rounds of the ammo to be tested.
I throw out any group that has a flyer because it might not be the ammo.
I measure each group and average all of the averages of each lot of ammo.
Then I take the best two or maybe three lots of ammo and test them against each other.
Even with Red box Eley there is a difference between lots and this testing will show that difference.
This way of testing works for me but I sure don't win all my matches.
Concho Bill
bob finger
New member
Roger T. No need to separate them. Ammo is a ammo. You test for good ammo in a particular rifle. What shoots lights out in one may not shoot in the proverbial bucket in another. On the other hand if you find killer ammo, odds are it will work well in all of your rifles. Only way you will know is to test. bob
Good question Melvin, I can share what I do maybe it would help. I guess first make sure, if possible, you have a good tune, good barrel maintainence, a proper platform to evaluate 1 thing not 12 things. I personally start with machine preference and over the last few years I've probably shot them all, the last couple only a single machine and all guns seem to be happy with it. This part is hard and you simply have to try lots of stuff. I've determined for me, I'm looking for a speed range within maybe 6-8 fps. I'm sure I miss stuff but it works and keeps the variables controllable. Once I get ammo I really try and be patient as to a weather window decent enough to evaluate. Like most I start with groups, usually 5 shot groups and the best stuff out there should put most in small round holes maybe cut it a bit. I'll shoot some groups, start right after shooting a card, if I get anything weird I'll shoot several more right then just to see if it was me or ammo. Honestly, after a while you just get a feeling that this stuff is A-list or OK maybe use it in local matches or sell it off a couple bucks less than cost and believe me I've sold plenty od decent stuff off just because I found something incrementaly better. The last test is match shooting, if new stuff does anything at all wild, I'll never use it in an important gun, you know those droppers are out there someplace you just gotta keep trying to narrow the odds. Anyway this seems to work for me at least.
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Mel Eck
Guest
Thanks for all the replys,The methods vary but in the end you need confedence in the ammo.I test with a clean gun and keep it clean,save some known good ammo to compare to and try to test over atwo day period.When I order test lots the bigger the lot the better,It stands a better chance of not being sold out.
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cpeters
Guest
It may seem wastefull but when I buy test lots I try to buy 2 boxes of each ammo lot. Normally a lot you don't like will show up within 5 shots down the barrel. I hang 1 target and keep another to write on. As I shoot the hanging target I make notes on the blank one. As an example, if I have 5 lots of ammo, I'll write each lot number on an ARA target 1-5. I will then shoot say 5 shot groups at each bull going accross with the different lot numbers 1-5. When it is all said and done targets 1,6,11,16 and 21 will have been shot with the first lot number. 2,7,12,17,and 22 with the second lot number and so forth.
When it is all completed you will have 5 column of targets each column, shot with a different lot number. Chances are you will see a pattern looking down those columns of which ones grouped better than the others. Now take the 2 or 3 lot numbers that show promise from a group standpoint and shoot a complete target with each to see which you like best and want to buy.
Too often I have bought single boxes and the ammo the ammo you think is better you shoot the most of in testing and you think.....I sure wish I had another box to try before committing to buy more. Chances if you shoot a box and then order a brick next to try when it comes time to buy it the lot you thought was good is gone.
I have alot of second boxes of that ammo unopened.....hey, you can let a friend try it.
I don't understand....but it is true....just because it will shoot good groups doesn't mean it will shoot for score.
But I can tell you this....if it won't group and is splattering all over the place shooting groups it sure the hell aint going to shoot for score.
Where to start with speed and machine number....I used to try to stay in the 1060 range but frankly my shilen ratchet I shoot some team off of the 3 machine at 1042 and some 5 machine at 1072 and have shot targets as high as 2450 with each this season. Machine number....there is good lots coming off of all of them.
Can't say this is better or worse than how anyone else does it....just the way I normally do it.
Charlie
When it is all completed you will have 5 column of targets each column, shot with a different lot number. Chances are you will see a pattern looking down those columns of which ones grouped better than the others. Now take the 2 or 3 lot numbers that show promise from a group standpoint and shoot a complete target with each to see which you like best and want to buy.
Too often I have bought single boxes and the ammo the ammo you think is better you shoot the most of in testing and you think.....I sure wish I had another box to try before committing to buy more. Chances if you shoot a box and then order a brick next to try when it comes time to buy it the lot you thought was good is gone.
I have alot of second boxes of that ammo unopened.....hey, you can let a friend try it.
I don't understand....but it is true....just because it will shoot good groups doesn't mean it will shoot for score.
But I can tell you this....if it won't group and is splattering all over the place shooting groups it sure the hell aint going to shoot for score.
Where to start with speed and machine number....I used to try to stay in the 1060 range but frankly my shilen ratchet I shoot some team off of the 3 machine at 1042 and some 5 machine at 1072 and have shot targets as high as 2450 with each this season. Machine number....there is good lots coming off of all of them.
Can't say this is better or worse than how anyone else does it....just the way I normally do it.
Charlie