swapping brass between barrels

[chino69]

Assume several barrels have all been chambered with the same reamer and fitted to the same action as in many switch barrel rifles. The re-sizing die has been adjusted to minimally re-size the brass and bump the shoulder back .001 which is performed after every shooting. Is it acceptable to use the same brass in all of the barrels or should brass be segregated and shot out of the barrel it was fireformed in?

 

[Pete Wass]

Brass is brass

One's brass ends up being what their resizing die makes it to be, so as long as the chambers are very similar, the brass won't know or care where it is placed. I've always figgered, within reason, Brass is a container to place the components that matter most to accuracy. keep it sized appropriately and it will deliver the goods. One often hears about fresh brass giving outstanding groups. I figure it proves my point. The brass didn't care that it didn't fit the chamber exactly.

Pete

 

[alinwa]

Assume several barrels have all been chambered with the same reamer and fitted to the same action as in many switch barrel rifles. The re-sizing die has been adjusted to minimally re-size the brass and bump the shoulder back .001 which is performed after every shooting. Is it acceptable to use the same brass in all of the barrels or should brass be segregated and shot out of the barrel it was fireformed in?

I assume you've never tried this?

 

[chino69]

I assume you've never tried this?

Al, yes I have tried it. Ya gotta understand I spent 35 years in the nuclear industry and it is hard to shake the training and standards we had to work to. Everything was double, triple verified, peer reviewed, concurrently reviewed, independently reviewed, etc.. Nothing was left to chance or unanswered and even then mistakes were made. Some of these mistakes were made due to assumptions made by experienced people who did not question themselves. I just wanted to confirm what I assumed to be correct with the answers from experienced and seasoned shooters and put that question to bed. Still in the learning curve and there is much to be gleaned from this site and some of the members. Thanks to all for the patience and willingness to share info..

 

[chino69]

One's brass ends up being what their resizing die makes it to be, so as long as the chambers are very similar, the brass won't know or care where it is placed. I've always figgered, within reason, Brass is a container to place the components that matter most to accuracy. keep it sized appropriately and it will deliver the goods. One often hears about fresh brass giving outstanding groups. I figure it proves my point. The brass didn't care that it didn't fit the chamber exactly.

Pete

Thanks Pete. You brought up an interesting phenomenon that I have experienced and that is virgin brass giving outstanding groups.

 

[gabe ledesma]

I have 2 identical actions (bat ds actions) both barrels are chambered with the same reamer, but I don’t use the same brass in both guns. I keep track of barrel rounds in each. If I had one action and a couple of barrels for that action I personally would make sure that every time I changed barrels If I was going to use the same used brass I would Recheck the used brass to make sure it functions properly. You will find that sometimes even though both barrels are chamered with the same reamer, there could be some slight differences when the barrels are tightened down. But maybe that’s just me. I don’t switch brass
Gabe

 

[Kyle Schultz]

Fire Forming Barrel

If brass is to be dedicated to one barrel, does that imply that a dedicated fire forming barrel is a bad idea? Or is it okay for the initial firing?

 

[Pete Wass]

As I said

Thanks Pete. You brought up an interesting phenomenon that I have experienced and that is virgin brass giving outstanding groups.

I think it puts to bed the theory of dedicated brass. Beyond that, unless a full length sizing die is EXACTLY the same as one's chamber, there are bound to be differences. I am reasonably sure most people assume their FL sizing die is the same as their chamber but think very few, if any have taken the steps to measure them precisely. It is possible to do that but why go to the trouble.

Pete

 

[alinwa]

Al, yes I have tried it. Ya gotta understand I spent 35 years in the nuclear industry and it is hard to shake the training and standards we had to work to. Everything was double, triple verified, peer reviewed, concurrently reviewed, independently reviewed, etc.. Nothing was left to chance or unanswered and even then mistakes were made. Some of these mistakes were made due to assumptions made by experienced people who did not question themselves. I just wanted to confirm what I assumed to be correct with the answers from experienced and seasoned shooters and put that question to bed. Still in the learning curve and there is much to be gleaned from this site and some of the members. Thanks to all for the patience and willingness to share info..

OK


I use brass from one gun to another, sometime 3-5 barrels/guns. I have 7 different 6X47L's and can interchange them but only because I re-cut some of them to match and did all the work myself. I've never managed to buy different barrels with same settings. I once gave a fellow 3 barrels with one reamer and one action. They all came back different. This BTW is "normal"...... it's considered top-flight if the HEADSPACE between multiple chambers is within a thou but blessed few folks on this planet can make two chambers the same diameter/taper.

You state "nothing left to chance, or unanswered" but do you know the questions?

I don't mean that facetiously...... I bought my own reamers 30yrs ago figuring my sizing problems were over....... but getting a reamer DID NOT mean getting interchangeable chambers.

I bought a lathe over it.

NOW I get interchangeable chambers.

 

[Pete Wass]

Rifles

Al, yes I have tried it. Ya gotta understand I spent 35 years in the nuclear industry and it is hard to shake the training and standards we had to work to. Everything was double, triple verified, peer reviewed, concurrently reviewed, independently reviewed, etc.. Nothing was left to chance or unanswered and even then mistakes were made. Some of these mistakes were made due to assumptions made by experienced people who did not question themselves. I just wanted to confirm what I assumed to be correct with the answers from experienced and seasoned shooters and put that question to bed. Still in the learning curve and there is much to be gleaned from this site and some of the members. Thanks to all for the patience and willingness to share info..

are pretty simple machines and do not fall into the Nuclear Industry category. If the kind of research you are familiar with was done with rifles, we might be a lot father along than we are but at this stage of the art, we are using a very simple machine. Best not to over think them.


Pete

 

[alinwa]

are pretty simple machines and do not fall into the Nuclear Industry category. If the kind of research you are familiar with was done with rifles, we might be a lot father along than we are but at this stage of the art, we are using a very simple machine. Best not to over think them.


Pete

Ohhh Yeahhh, "Nuclear Industry" and "Rocket Science"......

just saying the words makes the whole rest of the world feel inadequate.....


NOT!!!



LOL

 

[chino69]

OK


I use brass from one gun to another, sometime 3-5 barrels/guns. I have 7 different 6X47L's and can interchange them but only because I re-cut some of them to match and did all the work myself. I've never managed to buy different barrels with same settings. I once gave a fellow 3 barrels with one reamer and one action. They all came back different. This BTW is "normal"...... it's considered top-flight if the HEADSPACE between multiple chambers is within a thou but blessed few folks on this planet can make two chambers the same diameter/taper.

You state "nothing left to chance, or unanswered" but do you know the questions?

I don't mean that facetiously...... I bought my own reamers 30yrs ago figuring my sizing problems were over....... but getting a reamer DID NOT mean getting interchangeable chambers.

I bought a lathe over it.



NOW I get interchangeable chambers.

Al, I did not take your comment(s) to be facetious. What I meant is that if unsure I will ask the right question until the answer(s) gel in my skull. Sometimes one will get different answers to the same question which warrants a bit more research. Again, thanks for the reply as I learned a few things I did not know/was unaware of before.

 

[chino69]

are pretty simple machines and do not fall into the Nuclear Industry category. If the kind of research you are familiar with was done with rifles, we might be a lot father along than we are but at this stage of the art, we are using a very simple machine. Best not to over think them.


Pete

Thanks Pete.

 

[chino69]

Ohhh Yeahhh, "Nuclear Industry" and "Rocket Science"......

just saying the words makes the whole rest of the world feel inadequate.....


NOT!!!



LOL

It is actually a frigging curse; not meant to make the rest of the world feel inadequate. One cannot imagine the level of detail, scrutiny and accountability that is involved. It is almost akin to a cult and I'm in need of deprogramming. Actually it was a fascinating industry with some very highly skilled people with interesting stories and backgrounds.

 

[alinwa]

It is actually a frigging curse; not meant to make the rest of the world feel inadequate. One cannot imagine the level of detail, scrutiny and accountability that is involved. It is almost akin to a cult and I'm in need of deprogramming. Actually it was a fascinating industry with some very highly skilled people with interesting stories and backgrounds.

I completely agree. It's a fascinating industry employing many highly skilled and specialized people...... just like the automotive industry, the building industry, big oil, shipbuilding and maintenance (getting a glimpse into Jackie's world is such a treat) or any other facet of our lives. My father-in-law and his brother were inventors in America's Golden Age Of Innovation..... they actually LIVED the growth curve, starting in Detroit with "The Kings Of Industry", he even settled in the UP where Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, Thomas Edison, Ernest Hemingway etc spent their summers.... Back when we could do/build/explore/conquer anything. He designed and built equipment for making experimental stuff for CalTech, MIT, NASA ....... when we needed stuff we just stepped up and BUILT IT! And if we couldn't move it, make a bigger machine.....Letourneau's 'Of Men And Machines' gives us a glimpse into heavy equipment, then, when one has relatives and friends working those huge mines it's neat to go look closer..... to stand in a loader bucket that will carry your entire home......


I'm blessed to know literally hundreds of people working from under water and underground to the edge of space and it's ALL just friggin' too cool for words....INLUDING the nuclear power industry (or the plutonium industry LOL) but I grew up around the phrase "well, it ain't rocket science" only to grow up and find that NASA is about as dysfunctional as our local building dept and for the most part no brighter. And the power production/distribution industry is definitely a fascinating one.......I've got friends at Bonneville Power, many of my relatives lived and died with Hanford and Trojan, and now lotsa' folks involved with them stupid windmills lol....

Anyways, wasn't pickin' on ya'.... just completely disagreeing with the idea that high end accuracy is "simple compared to complicated stuff like nuke/space)"

cuz it AIN'T

 

[Michael Huebner]

Good Idea

If brass is to be dedicated to one barrel, does that imply that a dedicated fire forming barrel is a bad idea? Or is it okay for the initial firing?

Kyle it’s a good idea. As you know it takes about 3 x firings to obtain full shape, so nil issues swapping to the actual barrel after the first fire form load.

Michael

 

[JerrySharrett]

Some 20-25 years ago it was common to not full length size brass. But a common practice then was to take a set of brass and shoot several groups with it and mark and cull the brass that shot bullets out of the groups..

hen we started shooting loads so hot the brass had to be full length sized after each firing.

But have we "come a long ways baby"?


.

 

[chino69]

interesting people

I completely agree. It's a fascinating industry employing many highly skilled and specialized people...... just like the automotive industry, the building industry, big oil, shipbuilding and maintenance (getting a glimpse into Jackie's world is such a treat) or any other facet of our lives. My father-in-law and his brother were inventors in America's Golden Age Of Innovation..... they actually LIVED the growth curve, starting in Detroit with "The Kings Of Industry", he even settled in the UP where Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, Thomas Edison, Ernest Hemingway etc spent their summers.... Back when we could do/build/explore/conquer anything. He designed and built equipment for making experimental stuff for CalTech, MIT, NASA ....... when we needed stuff we just stepped up and BUILT IT! And if we couldn't move it, make a bigger machine.....Letourneau's 'Of Men And Machines' gives us a glimpse into heavy equipment, then, when one has relatives and friends working those huge mines it's neat to go look closer..... to stand in a loader bucket that will carry your entire home......


I'm blessed to know literally hundreds of people working from under water and underground to the edge of space and it's ALL just friggin' too cool for words....INLUDING the nuclear power industry (or the plutonium industry LOL) but I grew up around the phrase "well, it ain't rocket science" only to grow up and find that NASA is about as dysfunctional as our local building dept and for the most part no brighter. And the power production/distribution industry is definitely a fascinating one.......I've got friends at Bonneville Power, many of my relatives lived and died with Hanford and Trojan, and now lotsa' folks involved with them stupid windmills lol....

Anyways, wasn't pickin' on ya'.... just completely disagreeing with the idea that high end accuracy is "simple compared to complicated stuff like nuke/space)"

cuz it AIN'T

Al, here on the east coast (PA) most are just waiting for spring as we've had quite enough of winter. Getting into these discussions is an interesting and informative way to spend some time. Many in the nuclear power industry come from the Navy's nuclear power program and were submariners; many during the Cold War. One of the fellows I worked with had an uncle who was on the USS Nautilus when it made it's historic voyage under the North Pole. That same uncle went down with the USS Thresher. A VP at one of our sister plants, James Von Suskill, was the skipper of the USS Augusta trailing a Soviet boomer during the Cold War. His sonar man heard what he thought were missile doors being opened and it had to be assumed the Soviets were going to launch a first strike against the east coast. Von Suskill had his firing solutions for the torpedoes ready to blow the sub to eternity. His sonar man was pretty sharp and further deduced that there was a leak in one of the missile tubes allowing seawater to mix with liquid hydrazine and the order to launch torpedoes was belayed, thereby avoiding what could have been the spark that ignited WWlll. There is a book entitled 'Hostile Waters' that goes into more detail. The Soviets claimed the Augusta collided with them, the US Navy had an entirely different story. Much of the detail remains classified but I did meet Von Suskill and helped to investigate an overhead crane malfunction when he was the VP at our sister plant, providing an independent non BS report as to what actually happened.

Hanford, WA. The clean up at Hanford has been complicated by the fact that many of the piping and instrument dwgs. (P & IDs) are non existent due to the classified nature of Hanford's purpose.

Saw and heard the director of emergency services for TEPCO talk about Japan's nuclear tragedy at Fukashima. It was sobering to say the least. Every US nuclear plant has instituted emergency measures and staged equipment for an unexpected event as a result of what happened at Fukushima. The rationale is plan and prepare for the unexpected.

One final note. I remember, as a young boy, watching the ECHO satellite traverse the western night sky. The space race was on and we were all witness to America's response, it's technological challenges along with the dedicate brave people who put their asses on the line. I re-read Tom Wolfe's 'The Right Stuff' every couple of years to get a feel for what that period entailed.

 

[alinwa]

Al, here on the east coast (PA) most are just waiting for spring as we've had quite enough of winter...........

I just walked by where my wife is taking a live class on her laptop. ILTS streamed from Hancock MI and I overheard "Ohh Noooo, that's not gonna' melt 'til June!!"

Sounds like the midwest might be hit-or-miss whether ice-out beats the fishing opener LOL

I don't miss it.

 

[glp]

I think

swapping brass between barrels that a smith had tried to get chambers the same makes sense, especially if you have prepped a couple hundred for each barrel. Lets say the barrel becomes uncompetitive at 3000 shots, that's only 15 reloads per case, not many. I choose to make about 30 and load as I need to, so I've never been concerned about it. My experience trying it is, it sometimes goes, sometimes does not.