Suggested beginner components?

E

El Paso Mark

Guest
Greetings all. I’m probably going to start reloading after the first of the year. I’ll be loading for:

Howa 1500 bolt action 24 inch heavy barrel 1:12 twist .223

Savage 10FCP bolt action 24 inch heavy barrel 1:10 twist .308

Strictly target/accuracy loads for off the bench (Not competition), paper punching from 100-300 yards and metal silhouettes out to a thousand yards (800 yards for the .223). Now I know this is kind of vague/subject to interpretation, but, with all the types-brands-selections available I need a starting point. So, questions-

When just getting started (So as not to spend a fortune whilst learning, but still get good results) what bullet (Weight/brand/type), powder, primer, and brass would you recommend for “Economy accuracy” (Not Match grade, but better than factory) for each rifle?

What bullet (Weight/brand/type), powder, primer, and brass would you recommend for match grade accuracy for each rifle?

I've been using factory 55 grain .223 with fair results, but don't know if I should/can go higher (62 grain), or go lower (52, or 50 grain). Also have been saving my factory brass and have a bunch (Remington, UMC, PMC, Winchester, Monarch).

Only have 60 rounds through the .308, all Prvi and Monarch 145 grain, and have saved the brass.

Again, I know there are a lot of variables, and I’m not asking for pet recipes, just a suggested “Component materials list” to get started. Thanx.

Cheers,

Mark
 
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With the .308, my experience has been, with a 10" twist, heavier bullets are more accurate. 168 Sierra Match Kings, 4064 powder, Federal primers, and these days Lapua brass. You will get more from seating depth adjustment than you might guess. I would start with a low load and shoot a one shot per increment pressure test at a single target, carefully, on a good day, over flags, with the bullets seated .006 or so longer than touch. Remember, start low, and stop at the first sign of pressure. Rifles are individuals. The book is just a guide.

For your Howa, I would start with 53 gr. Sierras and 748, same brand of primers, same seating depth, same procedure. I don't think that you can get to a dangerous pressure, but start in the middle of the book anyway.
 
Mark

I am certainly no expert in loading but my experience has been basically trial and error. There is no "magic bullet", no pun intended. Rarely do the loads fit every gun of the same genre. Your components will not vary that much in price, and all will perform well. Since you will be doing mostly target shooting I would use "target bullets". Your guns may not shoot the bullets the bench shooters use. Their guns are totally different from yours even though they look similar. I shoot custom bullets in my bench gun and different makes in my other guns. If you read the forums you will probably find enough info to get you started in the right direction. I do not want to discourage you but you will be very lucky if someone gives you loads that are the best for your guns. Evidently you like to shoot and working up loads is fun, you get to shoot a lot. Good luck..
 
Mark

I probably added confusion, but you did get a reply from Boyd, listen to this guy, he will give you some good info...
 
Components

If you want accurate loads start with good brass. I use nothing but Lapua. It costs more than Remington or Winchester but is well worth it. Stick with the best Redding dies you can afford. I like Berger bullets, they are very consistent in weight and dimension. I would also invest in a Hornady chamber length guage and a good set of calipers.
Keep everything consistent.
 
Thanx guys, I appreciate it. Waylan- absolutely, I agree all guns are individuals. I maybe didn't pose the question as best as possible. What I'm trying to ask is for a departure point, not a destination.

With all the different components available, what is suggested to start with based on my twist rates and barrel lengths?

For example, amongst other suggestions Boyd mentioned 53 grainers for my .223 (Thanx Boyd). What I'm asking is, for best accuracy, what brand(s) (Sierra, Nosler, Speer, etc.) should I consider, what type (Match hollow point, FMJ-BT, Ballistic tip, etc.), what grain weight, what brand powder-primer-brass?

I know it's going to be trial and error, but if I can weed out the "Don't use/Won't work" from the word go and use suggested components/combo's (Based on my twist's and length) from experienced reloaders that "Should work" then it should be a bit easier to get started/have a starting point. Again, a departure, not a destination.

Hope that makes sense.

Twud- Is this it:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=570611

Cheers,

Mark
 
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Twist

Mark,
If you want to get a handle in the twist thing go to Berger's site www.bergerbullets.com. For every bullet they make they list the recommended twist. Very informative. You can go with a faster twist than recommended just not slower. My 1/12 6BR will shoot 85 grain bullets supposedly the max for this twist. But it shoots 75's just fine as well as 68's.
Mark
 
Regarding brass, you'll at the least want to segregate the used brass you have on hand by brand. Further down the road you'll want to by a large quantity of brass from the same production lot # to keep things as uniform as possible. Lapua is best but if you don't want to pay for it Winchester is normally pretty good.

Interseting thing about the .223, out to 300 yards the ballistics of a 40 gr bullet like the Nosler BT beat any of the heavier bullets by way of shear velocity, past that and the BC of the heavier bullets starts to take over. You might and I stress might be able to get a 69 gr SMK to stabilize out of your barrel which might get you to 800 yards, it's doubtful though. the 50s and 55s are no problem. Past 500 yards and BC is everything in a .223, the VLDs that look like pencils take over. Think of it more as a mid range rifle with the current barrel on it.

As far as loads go, I've found pretty much every .223 I've ever had likes something a little different for maximum accuracy. Work with what you already have,

In a .308 I'd recommend a 155 Lapua Scenar, they reach 1000 with no problem, although towards the high end of the powder charge range. They've been pretty accurate for me although it's still a work in progress. I prefer RL-15 and a CCI primer in the application. Best results are obtained by seating the bullets about .005" into the lands which will probably leave the loaded round too long to feed from the magazine and will have to be loaded singly. This can leave a bit of extra room in the case compared to SAAMI COL which can be put to good use allowing a bit more powder without going too high on pressure.

Sneak up the ladder on your loads and keep a weather eye on your primers and cases for indications of pressures. What works in one rifle can cause problems in another. Keep in mind when you pull the trigger you are setting off a controlled explosion three inches from your brain.

I like Redding dies, the micrometer topped seating dies (ease of setting seating depth) if you can afford it. And a lot of other little bench top gizmos are needed too. I don't trust most electronic powder scales, so best to start off with a balance beam scale until you can get a good electronic scale and still check the electronic scale against the beam scale occasionally. I like the Redding powder measures for the money although I now use an RCBS Chargemaster (with a good power conditioner) and it's a real time saver. One very nice powder funnel is the Satern which I very highly recommend, they are caliber specific (one reason they work so well) so you would need one for .223 and one for .308. Since they are aluminum there is no static cling of your powder as in a plastic funnel. I also like the Sinclair lthick oading blocks, the heavy plastic ones in which the cases fit so snuggly, fewer oops and tip overs.

There are a lot of gadgets out there, they all work, less than half of them work well enough to bother with. Get only what you need. With a factory rifle for instance neck turning isn't going to get you much of anything however the little Sinclair neck thickness measuring tool can help you discard the bad brass. A cheap case trimmer will work OK although for precision match loads I really like my Wilson with the micrometer adjustment. And so it goes. Keep in mind you do not have a custom tight chambered match rifle and make your purchases accordingly.

Most of all get one of the good reloading manuals, lately I've been liking the Hornady set better. I get them all, you should see my book case. 45 years worth more or less although I haven't seen any Hi-Vel #2 powder in a number of years.

Go at your own pace, don't get frustrated, enjoy the tinkering, keep good records of what you've done, only change one thing at a time (powder, powder charge, primer, bullet, bullet seating depth, brass etc.).
 
Mark

try "reloadersnest.com" they have a lot of info on just about any caliber load, bullet, powder, barrell and action. I use their info. I just got a 22BR and a 6 BR and the data helped me zero in a load for the guns. I have had good success with Berger, and Sierra bullets in all calibers. I just looked at 308 and there are many loads listed and I'm sure as popular as the 223 is they have a lot of data also. I do not shoot either so I can't help you with my experience. That site should get you going in the right direction.
 
Boyd Allen said:
You saw that I listed Sierra 53 gr. bullets? They only make one of that weight in .22 cal. It is a Match King.
Click to expand...

Boyd, I could not get those to shoot very well in my Swift. Do they perform in yours, if so what velocity? My best groups are with 52 Bergers with more IMR 4064 that I care to mention on the forum. Get a few loose primers no bolt sticking though. The old Savage throws out some good groups at this level...
 
37 and high change (velocity), Varget, Savage single shot Swift, .3s .4s , shoot about like Berger 52s

.222 , just under base of bullet w/748 , mid 3200s, low .2s

Your seating depth? Mine...longer than touch for both
 
223 savage lo-pro 9 twist 26 gr N-133 fred.match primer (52 EUBER) hard into the lands should shoot really good
 
Thanx for the time and effort guys, I appreciate it. Took a look at the Berger site. Interesting. They suggest a 62 and 64 grain will work in my 1:12, though I've always been told those were too heavy.

J. Valentine also recommended the Redding Competion dies. Nice, but a bit pricey, eh? But then, quality cost's I suppose. Buy once, scream once, right?

Cheers,

Mark
 
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By Some inexpenive Federal American Eagle .223 55gr FMJ Say 40rnd. Also Buy PRVI Partisan 55gr SP .223 40round. Go to the range fire them saving one PRVI round unfired. Now you have 79rnds brass to reload and the barrels should be smoother starting to break in.

If the PRVI Partisan shoot as well as the .222 Ammunition did for me, take the remaining round measure overall length to get a bullet seating depth, then pull the bullet with pliers or a bullet puller, pull and weigh the powder charge, then replace the bullet with the same or a new one.

Now look at mfg powder load manuals find a powder where this weight in grains is between the min and the maximum for an extruded powder.

Size brass, Trim to length 1.75"oal, Seat CCI 400 Primers, Throw or weigh powder charges for 20 cases, Seat a bullet to the earlier measused depth.

Go to the range and try your reloads.

Note for load development 55gr bulk FMJ work almost as good as the Match stuff. When the barrel has 100-200 rnds on it then try match if ya want.

The 1x12 twist barrel shoots 55gr tighter than 1x9tw.

Here is also a start point for load development:

55gr Hornady,Winchester, or Remington fmj bullets

Once fired brass from above rounds.

CCI 400 Primers

2.24" OAL a good place to start. Feeds from all magazines.

23.5 grains of several powders H4895, Benchmark, H335,
23 Grains Accurate 2015,VVN133,
24.1gr IMR 4064, Reloader 15, H Varget.
 
Boyd Allen said:
37 and high change (velocity), Varget, Savage single shot Swift, .3s .4s , shoot about like Berger 52s

.222 , just under base of bullet w/748 , mid 3200s, low .2s

Your seating depth? Mine...longer than touch for both
Click to expand...

I'm afraid my seating depth has vanished, can't touch the lands with 52's. Than is one reason I tried the 53's. I may not have pushed them fast enough. Is it a quirk or do Swifts shoot best at high velocities? Most of the Swift shooters I talk to have experienced this. I haven't cronyed the hot loads but at milder loads I'm in the 38-39 range, pretty sure my current loads would be well over 4.
 
Don't be brand specific on your components or your loading equipment. A lot of companies have good equipment but not one company has all the best equipment.
On bullets, a lot depends on what you want to do. If shooting competition the best custom bullets will give you a much better chance of winning, on most varmint hunting Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, and Speer will do just fine for less money.
I have 37 different rifles many in the same caliber and they all shoot a different load to shoot their best.
I currently shoot Berger, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, and Speer bullets. Winchester, CCI, and Federal primers, match and standard. Hodgdon, Alliant, Accurate Arms, Vitavouri, Winchester, and IMR powder. Lapua, my favorite, Winchester, Remington, Hornady, Nosler, and old Midway brass.
I have been over 40 years accumulating all the stuff I use, so don't get discouraged.
 
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