Standard bullets
- Thread starter kermit1
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R
retired
Guest
no clue on short range, but it has happened in 600/1000 sierra 107 in a dasher.
Years and years ago I asked myself the same question regarding Sierra bullets only. At the time you could use a Sierra 52 grain bullet to check your scale as they all weighed 52 grains exactly. Don't know how they did that but it's true. When I weighed the custom bullets they would vary a bit so the question became a short test - short being the key word. Off to the range in Oak Ridge we went, me and Elmer, with our loading tools and bullets to get to the bottom of this. We thought it would take longer but it didn't. We tested James Messer, GTB, and Sierra bullets in two rifles and the Sierra bullets seemed to be inappropriate for Benchrest group shooting. Inappropriate being the key word there. If it had been a great big test I would have written largely inappropriate.
Here's the deal. If you're shooting varmints, the Sierra bullets are just fine. If you're shooting competition Benchrest, find a custom bullet your rifle likes because your groups and scores will simply be better.
Here's the deal. If you're shooting varmints, the Sierra bullets are just fine. If you're shooting competition Benchrest, find a custom bullet your rifle likes because your groups and scores will simply be better.
Gene Beggs
Active member
Ol' Beggs Again
Wilbur, as long as I can remember, we accuracy minded riflemen have searched for the "sho' nuff' reason" some bullets shoot more accurately than others and in the case of custom benchrest bullets some have become legendary they are so accurate.
Your tests certainly proved that it is a waste of time to weigh and sort bullets to the nearest gazillionth of a grain; huh?
Although I do not make my own bullets, I have several friends that do. During the past thirty years, there have been many fine articles written about making benchrest bullets. It has been a fascinating study. Some point up dies have been credited with having some sort of magic quality that defies explanation. (Euber's 68 comes to mind.) Of course, all bullet makers agree, you must have good jackets; not too soft and not too hard, concentric within reason. Good cores; again, not too hard and not too soft, good dies, especially the point up die, proper lube, extreme care and cleanliness, but in spite of all this and the fact that some bullets look "so purty', some of 'em just will not shoot good aggs, no matter what you do!
So what's the answer? What else could it possibly be? Well, seating the cores too hard and stretching the jackets at the lead line is one thing that will kill accuracy, but I believe the main thing that determines how a bullet flies is the relationship between its aerodynamic center of lift and center of gravity!
More on this later. Right now I must get off this computer, clean up and shave. The grandkids are on their way!
Later,
Gene Beggs
Wilbur, as long as I can remember, we accuracy minded riflemen have searched for the "sho' nuff' reason" some bullets shoot more accurately than others and in the case of custom benchrest bullets some have become legendary they are so accurate.
Your tests certainly proved that it is a waste of time to weigh and sort bullets to the nearest gazillionth of a grain; huh?
Although I do not make my own bullets, I have several friends that do. During the past thirty years, there have been many fine articles written about making benchrest bullets. It has been a fascinating study. Some point up dies have been credited with having some sort of magic quality that defies explanation. (Euber's 68 comes to mind.) Of course, all bullet makers agree, you must have good jackets; not too soft and not too hard, concentric within reason. Good cores; again, not too hard and not too soft, good dies, especially the point up die, proper lube, extreme care and cleanliness, but in spite of all this and the fact that some bullets look "so purty', some of 'em just will not shoot good aggs, no matter what you do!
So what's the answer?
What else could it possibly be? Well, seating the cores too hard and stretching the jackets at the lead line is one thing that will kill accuracy, but I believe the main thing that determines how a bullet flies is the relationship between its aerodynamic center of lift and center of gravity! More on this later. Right now I must get off this computer, clean up and shave. The grandkids are on their way!
Later,
Gene Beggs
My Experience...
For a lark, I decided to try the new 125 grain Sierra flat base tipped Match King in my hunter rifle. Surprise...they shot as well as the two custom bullets I usually use. I decided to try them because Berger no longer makes the 135gr bullets I usually use. And this was the first time that the Match Kings had a flat base instead of the usual boat tail. I like them. One of the other shooters also tried them with the same results.
Sierra's are very popular in high power matches.
For a lark, I decided to try the new 125 grain Sierra flat base tipped Match King in my hunter rifle. Surprise...they shot as well as the two custom bullets I usually use. I decided to try them because Berger no longer makes the 135gr bullets I usually use. And this was the first time that the Match Kings had a flat base instead of the usual boat tail. I like them. One of the other shooters also tried them with the same results.
Sierra's are very popular in high power matches.
R
retired
Guest
high power is nowhere near benchrest in accuracy requirements.
not even close.
1000 yard 10 ring is TWENTY INCHES in dia.
not even close.
1000 yard 10 ring is TWENTY INCHES in dia.
Seems to me...
Seems to me that the high power shooters demand as much accuracy and us bench resters do. If customs bullets gave that much better results, they would be using them and some of them do. But Sierra's still play a major role.
Seems to me that the high power shooters demand as much accuracy and us bench resters do. If customs bullets gave that much better results, they would be using them and some of them do. But Sierra's still play a major role.
Wilbur, years ago you had a story about shooting bullets with/from Jeff (Foster maybe...) . The only difference was the lead.
When the last lead mine closed. A Sierra guy was asked about lead for Sierra Bullets. He said that Sierra has always used recycled lead....
Lowell told me there was only one kind of lead to use for BR bullets. I just buy Charlie's cores.
Think the lead is the difference. If the Sierra jackets are good?
Last edited:
R
retired
Guest
a little real life comparison:
the x ring on a 1000 yard high power target is 10" across, 78.5 square inches:
the x ring on a 1000 yard br target is 3" across, aprox 7.1 square inches,
the br target is less than ONE TENTH the size of the high power target.
there is a reason mil rifle shooters shoot production bullets and br shooters shoot custom bullets.
degree of accuracy required to win
a production is "GOOD ENOUGH" for high power, typically not for br( i never said never).
the x ring on a 1000 yard high power target is 10" across, 78.5 square inches:
the x ring on a 1000 yard br target is 3" across, aprox 7.1 square inches,
the br target is less than ONE TENTH the size of the high power target.
there is a reason mil rifle shooters shoot production bullets and br shooters shoot custom bullets.
degree of accuracy required to win
a production is "GOOD ENOUGH" for high power, typically not for br( i never said never).
Yes, Jef Fowler it was, and it was the lead for certain. Those bullets wouldn't shoot more accurately at a hundred yards than anything I know....maybe a slingshot...
I made about twenty thousand bullets (possibly more) using Sierra jackets and as far as I know they were good bullets/jackets/etc... I got those jackets when I got the dies and put off using them for a long time. I don't remember very well, but I think I used them during a J-4 jacket shortage of some sort. Further, I may have bought more along the way but simply can't remember.
I made about twenty thousand bullets (possibly more) using Sierra jackets and as far as I know they were good bullets/jackets/etc... I got those jackets when I got the dies and put off using them for a long time. I don't remember very well, but I think I used them during a J-4 jacket shortage of some sort. Further, I may have bought more along the way but simply can't remember.