Sometimes it is just plain old Ignorance!!

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
Back in the '70's, I fooled around with handguns quite a bit, especially Smith & Wesson Revolvers. I got to be good friends with the Range Officer at the Houston Police Range.

At the height of the "Dirty Harry" craze, when every one had to have a Model 29 44 Mag, I saw one completely blown up. It belonged to a Houston Police Officer.

He had bought the 44 brand new, and purchased all of the neccessary re-loading equipment at the same time. He had never hand loaded before.

His first trip to the Houston Police Range resulted in the very first round blowing the top three chambers out, and splitting the top strap. These were his just made "target loads".

Internal Affairs did an investigation. He claimed he did everything "by the book", even weighed each charge of Unique Powder. The charge was supposed to be a mild Target Load.

When they inspected his equipment, what they found was he did indeed weigh each charge. But through his ignorance, he had forgot to remove the little rubber protection gromets on the brand new beam balance's knife edges. The friction was so great that what he thought was about 10 grns of Unique was well over 25 grns. He did not think that the cases being completly full was a problem, since he was going by the book.

That much Unique behind a 240 grn lead target bullet produced the disastrous results describe before. He was lucky in that he only had some shrapnel wounds.

You just can't be too careful.........jackie
 
Jackie,

About 20 years ago, a guy cane in my uncle's shop and bought a new 700 in 270. A week or so later he brought it in asking if Unk could get the bolt open. Unk tried and tried, but it was a no go. While working on it he asked the fellow what he was shooting . It kinda went like this..

" My hand loads, a 130 and 56 grains of powder".
"What powder"?
"Gun Powder"
" Yeah, but what type"
" GUN POWDER I SAID"
"Yes, I know, but what? 4350,4831 or what"?
" I told you GUN POWDER" ( get'n huffy) " Stuff my buddy gave me"

"Well, the best I can tell you, send it back to Remington"

Till the day he died Unk never found out what powder the guy used or what, if anything, Remington did with the rifle.

Bill
 
Reloading basics

I'm a firm believer in mentoring and learning from someone with experience. For someone considering venturing into reloading, a good recommendation would be to watch and observe a friend who is an experienced reloader. Let your friend point out the basics, safety, tribal knowledge, etc. When you finally buy your kit and books, it will make better sense. You will always have a friendly source of info. you can call if you have questions.

Lou Baccino
Chino69
 
Gob of grease

Back in the late 70's when handgun silhouette was big in this area a fellow shooter, very experienced & a very good shooter, blew up his .44 super blackhawk with damage almost exactly like Jackie describes. He backtracked to figure out what happened. He owned an excavating business and on the day he reloaded the ammo in question he had lubed a dozer. Well, he found a gob of grease had gotten on his shirt sleeve and then onto the balance beam of his scales. HERCULES 2400. In a hurry & didn't look into the cases after adding powder or he would have surely noticed the overload.
 
Model 70 pre 64 cast bullet hand loads powder was redot, done by an experienced reloader. double charged case. blew mag out bottom which landed next to me (I was shooting prone him offhand during a local match) splinterd stock locked up bolt ect. he got some gas burns and his hand was bruised from the mag. Didn't sound right when he fired the shot before the one that blew it. He kinda stood there dumbfounded for a while happened about 20 years ago. I do not remember if the reciever was damaged extractor was I think.
 
A friend in Seattle failed to dump all the powder from his measure, didn't check to make sure it was empty before dumping the powder for his 6.5-08 Hi Power loads into it. Whatever the other powder was in the measure or how much of it went into the 6.5-08 case it was enough to blow off the extractor on the pre-64 M 70 action and wreck the stock. It was a nearly new custom rifle too. :( He was fortunately unhurt.

Can't ever be too careful with stuff that could be up next to your head and might blow up.
 
I've seen a lot of screw-ups over the years. The worst and most destructive was the guy that loaded a 7mm Weatherby in a 7mm rem mag chamber and had to beat the bolt closed and opened with a 2X4. It worked twice, then it was shrapnel.
 
Had a guy up here was going to reload but didn't have a scale but the book said how many grains to put in so he just counted the number of grains of powder. Stack up 4 in the barrel before he figured it out.
 
My own worst experience was to use brass in my wife's 243 that was reformed from 7.62 (.308) military brass.

My wife cut her forehead from the recoil. We had to use a billet of firewood to hammer on the bolt knob so as to get the action to open. We were lucky and were able to successfully hammer it open, and the gun was not damaged. My wife's cut was pretty shocking at the time, but turned out to be superficial.

Turns out these reformed military cases have less internal volume. A load that might be safe in factory brass can be very dangerous in such cases. I got these darned things at a gun show, not knowing the risk.

Here is a lesson for any of you who think re-formed military brass in a different caliber is a great bargain!

It can be used safely, I suppose -- ONLY by people who know exactly what they are doing.

This experience taught me a little healthy fear. Fear can be a good thing. Can save your eyes, your rifle, and even people you care about.
 
blow up

buddy of mine has been loadind for years put i think 26 grs of winchester pistol powder in 223 cz rifle blew up no one hurt but rifle destroyed
 
This happened quite a few years ago.. A local gun shop had a fellow come in with a 700 7mm Rem Mag that he had knocked the bolt handle off trying to extract a hand load...

He happened to mention the amount of powder he had used and the store owner (a hand loader) heard him and entered the conversation... telling him a 7mm Remington Magnum would not hold that much powder... (it was considerably more than the case would hold of 4831)... that he must have used a different powder that caused the overload. At that point the fellow got huffy and told him the powder was 4831 and he did get that much in... and then explained that he had to use a roller and crush the powder quite fine and that filled the case right up... I guess one time he had heard compressed powder charges with slow burning powder were good. He was so lucky he happened to own a 700. It did require a new bolt but there was no brass failure.
 
I had a customer bring in a Rem. 700 Stainless Varmint with the bolt handle broke off.
He told me that he had bought new "factory" ammunition and the third shot locked up the bolt and when he tried to beat it open with a plastic hammer the bolt handle broke off.
I told him to bring me the rest of the box and I would send it and the rifle to Remington. His reply was the ammo didn't come in a box but in a bag.
After much questioning of the evasive guy, it turns out the ammunition was bought at a gun show. He insists that since the brass was new it was "factory" ammuntion.
It does no good to argue with an idiot, to this day he is mad at Remington for the audacity to charge him to repair the rifle which he was shooting "factory" ammunition in.

I had another customer that was quite proud of the fact that he was loading .38 Special ammo with a lead bullet and a fast burning powder, Hodgdon Grey B, (God I'm old to remember that powder). Got a lot of loads out of a pound of powder.
I had seen him load and his technique was sloppy to say the least, he never visually checked the level of the powder after throwing it and before seating a bullet. He obviously double charged one and when he fired it in his like new S&W Mod. 36 the chamber and the top strap came out.
He would not allow me to send it to S&W but insists that the revolver must have been cracked or built weak before he got it.
Once again a customer that is mad at the manufacurer for a problem the customer created.
 
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Sometimes there's an angel on their shoulder.

Way back, a couple of novices bought stack barrel field shotguns & tried them out at the manual trap at our local range. They figured that their lack of result was because the loads they had bought didn't have enough grunt so went home , disassembled the rest of the box, doubled up the powder charge & shot load, dispensing with all but the card wad (yes, it was a decade or three, four ago).

The first guy that fired was to the left & a lefty, which was lucky because it was the whole left side of that Brno receiver that came off & buried irself in the adjacent bay wall. Did you ever see that model in the States, the one with the side flanges that was also made as a double rifle or drilling, as I recall?
 
Winchester had a shot gun powder called 450 LS .
Hodgon has a rifle powder called H-450.

A customer walked into a local shop in Calgary many years ago and asked for 450 ball powder . The clerk sold him Winchester 450 LS shot gun powder and this was a ball powder also.

He loads 60 grains with a 180 grain bullet in his Sako 30/06.

At the first shot the front receiver ring top disapeared and that barrel flys downrange. The action bent and stopped the bolt or it would have gone thru his head. The only part that was not damaged was the Sako trigger .

The customer was in our store to buy another new Sako. He did mention that he had given up "handloading" though........

A small cut on his finger was his only damage .:eek:

Glenn:D
 
One day another customer walked into the shop to have his hunting rifles cleaned. His wife and two small children of just two years old were with him.
He took two M70's out of the soft cases and laid them on the counter.
The bolts were closed and the safetys in the off position .

I picked up the .243 and opened the action by reflex . Out comes a live round and the magazine is full. I don't say anything and check the .270 next.
Same deal here and I mention that this might not be a safe thing to do.

His guns were cleaned and I never saw him again. I did check the news for about a year convinced that he would show up again there.

Scary ......

Glenn:D
 
About 25 years ago I picked up a Ruger Blackhawk in 41 Rem. mag. At the time I didnt handload, but a guy at the gun shop where I bought the pistol did it on the side at home for extra cash. So I give him my once fired cases, and about a week later I get my loaded rounds at about 1/3 the price of factory.
That weekend I go out to a buddys and we proceed to have a good day of fun shooting, the first 3 cylinders full went without a hitch, then a loud crack like a rifle, recoil so bad it split open my hand. The cylinder would no longer revolve, (wonder why?) Anyways the gun shop sent it back to Ruger, and was told initially the gun couldnt be repaired, I asked them to try anyway and let me know. About 3 weeks later I get a call from the shop that my pistol was back and that Ruger had repaired it.

The report I got from Ruger was that the cylinder had split, bent the pawl, and hand, but did not bend the frame so they repaired it at my expense. :eek: Turns out the guys son had loaded them and given me a double charge of Unique. Ruger stated that 3 of the rounds left in the cylinder were also double charges :eek:. After that I decided that it was time to handload myself and never trust anyones handloads again. Live and Learn

Good Shooting
DR
 
I had this conversation with the Rangemaster at the Indoor range we shoot Bullseye pistol leagues in during the Indiana winter. He had a box of (50) .38 Special reloads that he was showing the shooters. He got to me and I asked my standard question"What's in 'em??" His answer floored me. Quote" It's either 5.8 or was it 8.5 grains". "OF WHAT????" Quote"Shotgun padder". "What kind". Hodgdon's was the answer. "Hodgdons what". Here's the bombshell..."You mean padder ain't padder"???.
This is from the rangemaster, a very low time reloader.
It can happen to you and you may not be the guy that did it!!!

Mike Swartz
 
Mike Swartz said:
I had this conversation with the Rangemaster at the Indoor range we shoot Bullseye pistol leagues in during the Indiana winter. He had a box of (50) .38 Special reloads that he was showing the shooters. He got to me and I asked my standard question"What's in 'em??" His answer floored me. Quote" It's either 5.8 or was it 8.5 grains". "OF WHAT????" Quote"Shotgun padder". "What kind". Hodgdon's was the answer. "Hodgdons what". Here's the bombshell..."You mean padder ain't padder"???.
This is from the rangemaster, a very low time reloader.
It can happen to you and you may not be the guy that did it!!!

Mike Swartz
Click to expand...

Yer sure gittin picky Mike. :D

Some people should obviously stick to something nice and safe like watching tv IMHO. :eek:
 
Turns out the guys son had loaded them and given me a double charge of Unique. Ruger stated that 3 of the rounds left in the cylinder were also double charges .
Click to expand...

The most dangerous situations occur when the reloader chooses a powder that could easily be double-charged in the case.

I load cast bullet loads for the .44 Mag, and it requires 6.5 gr. Red Dot behind a 240 gr. cast. It would be very easy to double charge these particular loads.

I ALWAYS use a penlight flashlight to visually inspect the charged cases before seating bullets. This is not infallible either, but it is a good precautionary step.

Forgive me if I repeat, but another very dangerous situation is to use brass that's been formed from G.I. brass. I used such formed cases for my .243 that originated as G.I. 308 ammo. The recoil cut my wife's forehead. We had to use a billet of firewood to hammer the bolt handle so as to open the action. Bad news.

Ignorance is the enemy. I bought these formed 243 cases at a gun show cheap, congratulating myself that I had gotten a bargain.

If I really knew what I was doing, and loaded these formed cases about four grains light, I probably would have had no problems.

=========

Question to the guy who blew up the Ruger revolver. How much did Ruger charge you to "fix" this broken gun? Just curious.
 
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