shots out the bottom

S

savet06

Mike Suhie
As of February of this year I have been shooting a new 30br BAT, 18.75-18tw score gun with a bruno/mcmillan stock. Sinclair front rest with cordura bag and edgewood minigator rear with cordura ears. I have been struggling to get it to perform on a consistent basis and have solicited some advice from different shooters all of whom have contributed to incremental, but significant, gains in my performance.
Today I shot a local unregistered match and had a phenomenon occur that I have not experienced nor read about (at least occurring on a consistent basis).
My sighter shots would form nicely in the nine ring below the mothball, and when I went up to my record target 4 out of 5 1st shots were nearly 1/2-1 bullet lower than expected. I didn't have the guts to hold down to it until it happened the third time and then I had a decent group.
I am shooting a moderate pin (as consistent as I am able, and I realize that this might be the source, but....), and I would have attributed the dropped shot to this fact, but the subsequent group that forms above the 1st shot does not display this same penchant for vertical.
I have been battling a flinch I found I had developed, and am using a past recoil shoulder pad to retrain my brain.(video taped myself at the range one day and was able to predict every time a shot went out because I would jump at the recoil...got hit in the nose a few times)

I have read about the first shot going higher on the record target, and have experienced this first hand with my father's gun, but is there anything to the opposite occurring? I don't mind this happening for group, but the score game won't forgive a 9 on each target, and I can't count on this happening every time.

Thanks in advance,
Mike
 
Strange Occurrances

Mike, I go through phases of this. Sometimes the first shot goes up or down, and I have to chase it. I suspect it has something to do with the bag set-up, or the tune being a tad off. or perhaps a strange condition. But in all honesty, it has always been much of a mystery.

One thing I try to do, (if I remember), is when I go to the record, I slide the Rifle back and forth a couple of times, and try to concentrate that I do indeed have the Rifle where I think it should be.

The important thing to remember is knowing where that shot should be, and be willing to act accordingly. If you are positive that first shot is not where it should be, (for what ever reason), then you have to be willing to chase it. Just don't blindly put the second shot with the same point of aim, because it all likely hood, it WILL go where it is supposed to, which of course, is NOT where the first shot went...........jackie
 
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Mike...a couple things I did to deal with shots "dropping out the bottom" were...move my forend stop (on the rest) to allow more forend overhang (gun balance)...start with 2" minimum overhang then move out further while shooting groups on the sighter then the record bull...to reduce P.O.I. change...
Next make darn sure you are not shooting with a tail wind..we sometimes like to shoot a straight away condition...but it will bite you in the butt if it comes with a pick-up..(dropped out the bottom)..:eek:

Hope this helps...
Eddie in Texas
 
Thank you both for the replies.
I am not sure if I am able to move the front stop on my sinclair rest (newer version with a windage top), but if there is a way I would certainly be open to try. The conditions were a 7-8oclock right to left, but there certainly could have been an unseen condition sneaking in. There weren't a lot of flags out in the field, and mine were set on the right side of my lane by necessity.
I had found that when I went up to the record, and I slid the rifle in the bags it would change POA by a full 3-4". Perhaps I didn't settle it enough after moving up there, and I will try that the next time out.
I am also not leaving out the possibility that neither the gun nor I were in perfect tune either :)
Mike
 
Speak to the flinch

Hi Mike,

I shot a 30x47 free recoil for a number of years and had to work hard on the flinch. I noticed that before I flinched my off [left in my case] shoulder would be drawn up and tight - just ready to run from that gun. The last thing I do before I shoot is relax the shoulder.

Russ
 
That's exactly what was happening to me. I was thinking about that gun coming back and hitting me in the shoulder (which doesn't have a whole lot of "padding" to begin with!) or the bridge of my nose. It took my focus on the flags away and I ended up rushing shots, slapping the trigger, and basically having no idea where those shots are going to hit. I spent a solid 75 rounds at the range focusing on my position behind the rifle, and breaking each shot as cleanly as I could. It was amazing the difference in the POI when my shot broke the way it should. Without fail I was more relaxed and could call exactly where the shot was going to hit.
The moderate pin that I used at the recent match did help my confidence a bit, but I didn't agg as well as I thought I could. Nothing huge, but nothing small either. I'll figure this thing out yet.
practice, practice, practice...in the pursuit of perfection.
Mike
 
dont know if this helps

last year with my factory rifle i was experiencing the same problem. i found my sighters to be right on but when i moved to the #1 bull i would drop out to the 9 and even the 8 ring some times, but if i moved from the sighter straight up to the #5 bull first instead i was right on target, but when i got to the #1 bull it would drop out the bottom again. i ended up changing my rear bag for the last match and shot a score that i would of been happy with a few weeks ago with my new VFS rig, its got a funny habit of sending one into the 8 ring at 3Oclock for no reason, im suspecting the accutrigger, but thats another story. any way just some thing ive seen, dont know if it helps, if your allways starting with the same bull, try starting your score with another bull, and see what happens.

later
Will
 
I also

like to think sometimes for that errant shot as to whether or not I missed a boil in the mirage.

There is so much going on when shooting a group. Flag, tails, probe, mirage etc. etc.

This past weekend I would have shots go left out of the group and not just a little but like a LOT. Right I was able to accept that as it was just me wondering when the time was right to pull the trigger on the let off. Just did not wait long enough. Those left shots got me until the guy next to me was watching me shoot as well. He said to me after the shot went left, mirage changed directions on me when I squeezed the trigger. If he would not ahve told me I would have wondered why. Flags looked okay.

Like I said there is so much going on and to double check in short order that sometimes we miss something.

Calvin
 
I have only shot score matches, but causes of dropped shots that I have pretty much confirmed it's cause have been 1) a poorly machined speed screw....shot half my first season with that malady 2) not enough attention to mirage (forgot mirage board).....happened last match
 
I have read about the speed screw issue before, and though i don't have one I do have to spin the rear screw on my Sinclair. Should I lock it down each time?
 
As I understand it, you are using the rest's rear leg for elevation changes.
I would think these legs should be locked using the jam nuts supplied. In my case the threads on the speed screw caused the rest to drop ever so slightly upon firing. I fixed the problem by using lapping compound on the offending threads until the "hang-up" was eliminated. I no longer use speed screws, been spoiled by coaxial rests.
I would ,however, recommend a speed screw in lieu of your current method.....you just have to be aware some may need to be fine tuned:)
Also, it was common practice to place a coin under the speed screw leg point....I assume to keep the pin from dropping into a crevice ( i.e. crack in bench top, previous holes left by leg points ....all typically found in wood tops.
Could you explain what "shooting a moderate pin" refers to?
 
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Thank you for the tip on the speed screw. I was hoping to learn more about their use before I bought one as I had heard some negative comments in the past (generally referring to the dropped shots).
I guess a moderate pin is shoulder pressure somewhere between applying just enough pressure to the butt that you are no longer free recoiling, and pushing so hard the rest is going to come off the bench. "Firm" pressure could also be used in lieu of "moderate" (in between light and heavy, or mild and...hard?). I may be using this terminology incorrectly and if so I apologize. I am not holding the rifle with my hand at all, and the only thing touching the gun aside from my shoulder is my trigger finger.

On the subject of the speed screw:
I haven't used lapping compound before, and ,though I may not need to, I was wondering what grit should be used.
Is there a certain technique or amount of compound that should be used?
Mike
 
On the speed screw fix, I actually used toothpaste, yes good old Colgate ( it's cheap). I only had on hand at the time valve grinding compound ( of which the grit I had seemed too course when I used it on other gun projects). I first tried JB however, and that seemed to go nowhere. The toothpaste idea came from somewhere on the internet. All I can offer is that it worked quite well.
 
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