Scope mounting

D

Dew

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I see these metal and plastic one inch diameter rods that have been cut in half and one end of each rod has been sharpened to a point. Put them in your scope rings and when the points are touching it means the rings for the scope are supposed to be lined up.

Is there a better system than this to make sure the rings are in perfect alignment?
 
I'm surprised nobody else has an opinion on this, because surely most experienced folks know pointed alignment bars are debatable. I have pointed aluminum sets in both 30mm and 1".

If given the choice again, I wouldn't bother with pointed bars. I especially wouldn't consider them if they're made of plastic! I'd buy Kokapelli bars next time.

If you must have pointed bars then get them on Ebay. They are aluminum, and always available at a good price. But don't think you can flip them around and use the squared ends as an alternative. Those ends are knurled, and the bars too short to be able to pull that trick. If you want to hear somene elses opinion about the pointed bars not being such a great sytsem, then check out the two last feedbacks on that Midway link. Or, check out Kokapelli's explanation at his websight.

http://www.kokopelliproducts.com/scopeb.html

I agree with him. And I wouldn't doubt if most bars are made with knurled ends to prevent the dual use.....as Kokapelli has sued some competitors for patent infringement!

As far as a lapping bar, I don't think you need to buy the fancy Kokapelli lap bar. I bought my two lapping bars on Ebay too. There's a guy there who offers lapping bars through a "Buy it now." Simply drill the bar, and epoxy a cheap screwdriver handle into the bar. I don't care for the position of the Kokapelli handle, I like mine in the middle. Neither do I think a kokapelli lap bar needs to be course with lesions to hold lapping compound. Lapping compound goes a long way, and that smooth but inexpensive Ebay bar is all I ever needed.

Sorry if you found this post too late. Sheeesh....I'd hate to think you bought plastic pointed bars.
 
I think that the pointed scope alignment bars are a waste of money. The only bars that I can recommend are the Kokopelli, but, having said that, I have never seen rings that were perfectly aligned even on a one piece base. It would seem to me that any serious effort at scope mounting would involve lapping and/or bedding the rings....so why bother with alignment bars, if you are going to have to lap any way?
 
I've wondered about this myself. Any thoughts on the Burris rings with the inserts?
 
Dew: I do some things when mounting scopes that I have never seen any other folks do.
I align the rings to the bore of the Rifle I am mounting a scope on.
THEN I bore sight that ring alignment with the scope (the scope has its adjustments centered for this by way). I call this bore sighting the rings.
THEN I lap the rings!
This aligning of the rings with the bore makes sure the front of the rings are exactly perpindicular to the bore - I use a large QUALITY carpenters square for this.
In about two seconds you can figure out how to align the rings with the bore of the Rifle using the large carpenters square.
I won't waste time here giving all the self explanatory details.
But I will relay this - once I started using this method (about 15 years ago) all of a sudden mysterious "problems" with scopes have simply vanished, for me!
I have two sets of scope lapping tools one made by the folks at Russ Haydons Shooters Supply and one set by the Kokopelli people. I like them both.
The two piece pointy rod tools that I own, I have never used - I have my own personal reasons for that - suffice it to say that I have been VERY happy just aligning my rings with the bore of the Rifles I mount scopes on.
Right now I have been sitting here in SW Montana fuming and stewing over the cost of a 30mm lapping tool!
In fact I have been stewing over this for about 6 weeks!
I refuse to pay the exhorbitant prices that folks are asking for a 30mm lapping rod - over 7 times what I paid for the Haydon 1" Tool about 20 years ago!
So, meanwhile my Rifle sits there scopeless and my Leupold 6.5x20 Long Range 30mm scope sits right next to it!
The 30mm rings are already aligned with the bore of my Rifle and yet I refuse to mount a scope in unlapped rings and I refuse to suffer the indignity of paying the exhorbitant price for a 30mm lapping bar!
I am a victim of my own shortcomings!
Be sure to use the Carpenters square to align your rings before you do any lapping.
And be sure to bore sight the rings as well - just drop the scope in the aligned but unlapped rings and check for any problems with your bore sighting tool - again do this before you lap.
I am will ing to rent a 30mm lapping tool if anyone lives within driving distance of SW Montana.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
Jackson~in~GA said:
I've wondered about this myself. Any thoughts on the Burris rings with the inserts?
Click to expand...

Best thing since sliced bread.....

I have both types of bars I made myself many years ago. I also use a straight one piece bar. I made all my bars except the pointed ones out of thompson rod. I do something like Varmit Guy does.

I mount the front ring and a ten inch thompson bar in it. I have a laser that I can angle the base. I put this (magnetic) on the rod and center the front ring on the barrel. (leupold style setup). Then take the screws out and slide the rear ring up the bar and mount it straight using the windage adjustments. I double check this with the pointed and flat end bars.

My lapping bars are also made of Thompson rod. I do not use a handle as I have found a handle can cause more problems by people using to much pressure. Thompson rod with lapping compound glides nicely and I only use two fingers to lap with.

I primarily use nothing but the Burris insert rings on rifles now. Even have a set on a benchgun.

Hovis
 
Dew,

I forgot to add that the Kokapelli aignment bars come with a protruding rod to help you better see and align the rings with the barrel.

A lot of folks use the Burris Zee rings with the insets. I haven't tried them yet, but a thousand guys giving good feedbacks about them can't all be wrong. But, you will in rare instances (like hapened to me) that you can't get them in every style, size, and color desired. In that case I have used other brands and lapped the rings as necessary.
 
Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts are like Hovis said the greatest thing since sliced bread. They hold the scope tight, but don't mar the tube unless a guy is REALLY ingenious (I've never managed and I can usually figure out a way to screw things up!). They also allow the scope to be aligned with the bore in case the base holes are out of line, or the scope to be tilted downwards for long range shooting without buying expensive sloped bases.
 
Sinclair makes a good system that is turned for 1" and 30mm
 
I used to take -.003 to- .01 off top and bottom halves (depending on individual ring sets) then align hone the sets together. But since Burris came out with the Sig Zee sets that all I use anymore.:cool:........ I have a Kokopeli set on the shelf if someone is interested :eek:
 
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The final solution...

Dew said:
I see these metal and plastic one inch diameter rods that have been cut in half and one end of each rod has been sharpened to a point. Put them in your scope rings and when the points are touching it means the rings for the scope are supposed to be lined up.

Is there a better system than this to make sure the rings are in perfect alignment?
Click to expand...

Buy a set of Burris Signature scope rings with the plastic inserts and never worry about the above problem again. They are reasonably priced and work great.

virg
 
Pointed scope alignment rods can give a false sense of security. You can set two pointed rods on a table at a 45 degree angle to one another and make the points touch, but the rods are hardly aligned.
 
virg said:
Buy a set of Burris Signature scope rings with the plastic inserts and never worry about the above problem again. They are reasonably priced and work great.

virg
Click to expand...

I second that on the burris Signature rings, they have too many pros and no cons, pros are no marks on the scope, you can get eccentric rings and use them to your advantage to set the scope up for maximum elevation on long targets, I got rid of all my clumsy alignment rods. I just ordered a new Sightron SIII 8x32x56 and I would not even think of putting that scope on non insert type rings, unless I were going to bed the rings with marinetex, but I don't even do that anymore.

Chet
 
I don't see any use for the pointy sticks, nearly all rings need SOME lapping, and you can tell how bad things are and also when your finished by the pattern you scrub on the rings. Just a waste of time and money in my book.
 
I waited to see what you guys would say...

about the pointed bar. Now that I've heard what you have to say I'll skip buying one.
I would like an explanation from VarmintGuy about using the carpenters square to line up the rings with the bore etc.

Thanks,
Dew
 
Dew: First you obtain a large Carpenters Square.
Then you place your Rifle in a cradle or vise.
Next you mount the bottom half of the rear ring on the base.
Snug fit is fine for now.
Place the Carpenters Square on the forward edge of the rear ring bottom at the top.
Do this with the longest leg of the Carpenters Square pointing down the barrel toward the muzzle.
Align the "inside" edge of the long leg of the Carpenters Square with the center of the barrel - this takes adjustment of the ring in its holder.
The first, two inch (2") mark, of the shorter leg and the leg Carpenters Square that is "butted up" to the ring half will be in the "center" of that ring half and more importantly the 1 1/2" and the 2 1/2" marks on the Carpenter Square will line up EXACTLY with the edges of the half circle of the ring you are looking down on.
By adjusting this rear ring tiny amounts you can get it perfectly perpindicular to the line of the bore (barrel)!
Rear ring is now aligned!
Now do the front ring - adjusting it so it is also perfectly aligned (or perpindicular) with the bore/barrel.
30mm rings are done exactly the same way except the 2" mark is still dead center but the edges of the 30mm rings are at slightly different points on the Carpenter Square - like 1 3/8" and 2 5/8" - IIRC.
Its ALL self explanatory once you have your Rifle in a cradle (vise) and you have the large Carpenters Square with its longer leg pointing down the barrel at the muzzle.
Good luck and don't hesitate to ask me for more directions if you are cornfused!
I have not had a single "ring mark" appear on any scope I have set into rings I have "aligned" in this manner. And I have done hundreds of them!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
I don't go through any of............

this stuff, just get a set of Hillver bases & rings, there's no problem. The rings will seek BDC, just lay the scope in there, look under the scope, if you see daylight under the scope, just manipulate the ring(s) a bit, it will align perfectly. No lappin' or crappin' around, plus, other than "tactical" rings, these are the most robust on the market, :rolleyes: EACH ring can withstand 4,000 to just over 5,000lbs of pressure before failure. :eek: The guys that shoot the TC Contenders love 'em.
 
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