Salt-Batch Nitriding barrels for extended barrel life

E

elmerdeer

Guest
Which is the best process to get extended barrel life, cause there are many diferrent nitriding processes;Nitreg® -
Potential-Controlled Nitriding
Nitreg®-C – Potential-Controlled Nitrocarburizing (FNC process)
Nitreg®-ONC® - see ONC®
Nitreg®-S – Potential-Controlled Nitriding of Stainless Steel
Nitreg®-Ti – Potential-Controlled Nitriding of Titanium Alloys
Nitriding
Nitrocarburizing
And does anyone do this process for barrels in canada? It would be nice to have extended barrel life on a longrange precision rifle.
Elmer
 
Nitreg (C, ONC, S)

Actually Nitreg will be better that Melonite or QPQ. It is a controlled gas nitriding process (Controlled to aerospace standards, 2759/10A and 12A). Melonite or QPQ are molten salt baths, without control over the nitriding or ferritic nitrocarburizing capacity of the bath.

Nitreg C is a ferritic nitrocarburizing process - used mainly for low carbon steels such as 1008. Probably not the case of a gun barrel.

Nitreg: controlled nitriding (depth to be defined). It can be formuated to minimized the growth of white or compound layer.

ONC: is a finishing process to produce a dark black or blue finish.

Nitreg-S: used for all grades of stainless steels. Will not produce a dark surface, and white layer may be minimized to leave you with a surface easier to polish back.

Ask whoever does those processes to help you out. They'll probably give you some advice and do a freee trial.

P.S. Molten salts typically operate in higher temperature ranges than controlled gas nitriding. This is why distortion will be minimized in Nitreg processes
 
jkal said:
Actually Nitreg will be better that Melonite or QPQ. It is a controlled gas nitriding process (Controlled to aerospace standards, 2759/10A and 12A). Melonite or QPQ are molten salt baths, without control over the nitriding or ferritic nitrocarburizing capacity of the bath.

Nitreg C is a ferritic nitrocarburizing process - used mainly for low carbon steels such as 1008. Probably not the case of a gun barrel.

Nitreg: controlled nitriding (depth to be defined). It can be formuated to minimized the growth of white or compound layer.

ONC: is a finishing process to produce a dark black or blue finish.

Nitreg-S: used for all grades of stainless steels. Will not produce a dark surface, and white layer may be minimized to leave you with a surface easier to polish back.

Ask whoever does those processes to help you out. They'll probably give you some advice and do a freee trial.

P.S. Molten salts typically operate in higher temperature ranges than controlled gas nitriding. This is why distortion will be minimized in Nitreg processes
Click to expand...

So if I understood you correctly the (Nitreg procees) would be better at doing the job than the QPQ and or molten salt baths? And what would be the temp of the salt baths and for how long? I wound'nt want to do any damage to the barrel.
And as far as the Nitreg process can you explain the procedure as I have no knolwedge of it?
Thank you
Elmer
 
Elmerdeer,
Joel has been doing QPQ for several years and we know it works. I'm certainly not going to say bad things about another process, but who has used it and can we afford it?
Butch
 
Butch Lambert said:
Elmerdeer,
Joel has been doing QPQ for several years and we know it works. I'm certainly not going to say bad things about another process, but who has used it and can we afford it?
Butch
Click to expand...

You are right 100% but my problem comes from living in Canada and exporting any kind of gun related part to the U.S. has become a very hard thing to accomplish, so as it stands I am trying to find someone that is doing it in Canada, and that has done some barrels so if I give him some work it gets done properly.
I wish I could send it Joel and not worry about it getting through customs and getting it back, but thats not the case.
So if anyone knows someone in Canada that does the same process as Joel and has done it on custom barrels I would go that route. But so far all the companies that I have called that do all types of nitriding have'nt realy done any custom barrels yet, that I know of. So any Ideas and help :) I would love.
Thanks
Elmerdeer
 
jkal,
Your process is interesting.
What is the Nitreg processing temp?
How do you get the gases in the bore?
What is your compound layer case depth?
Are you or they currently processing firearms parts?
Butch
 
Jkal,

I'd also really like to see answers on this and locations where these processes can be done as well thank you,

Paul
 
jkal said:
Actually Nitreg will be better that Melonite or QPQ. It is a controlled gas nitriding process (Controlled to aerospace standards, 2759/10A and 12A). Melonite or QPQ are molten salt baths, without control over the nitriding or ferritic nitrocarburizing capacity of the bath.

Nitreg C is a ferritic nitrocarburizing process - used mainly for low carbon steels such as 1008. Probably not the case of a gun barrel.

Nitreg: controlled nitriding (depth to be defined). It can be formuated to minimized the growth of white or compound layer.

ONC: is a finishing process to produce a dark black or blue finish.

Nitreg-S: used for all grades of stainless steels. Will not produce a dark surface, and white layer may be minimized to leave you with a surface easier to polish back.

Ask whoever does those processes to help you out. They'll probably give you some advice and do a freee trial.

P.S. Molten salts typically operate in higher temperature ranges than controlled gas nitriding. This is why distortion will be minimized in Nitreg processes
Click to expand...

when I was gainfully employed we did nitride processes every day, and watched it evolve thru the years. The best I've seen is the gas process at 900 degrees (but there's more). The process was long (29 hours for 4150 & 4350 pretreat steels as well as full hardened 4*** series steels). We usually did a lot of pretreated steels that had a 28-32RC from the start. But still we did standard soft 4*** series steels, then simply hardened them to about 45-47RC before sending them to the nitride. One thing I discovered the hard way was that some steels actually grew in size while others actually shrank (normally less than .001"). Of course I was running these parts thru a heat treat setup designed for something different than what I usually wired to the baskets. But later I also learned that I was getting similar results from a heat treat setup just for my particular grade of steel. To this day this has left me a several engineers dumbfounded! The case was about .030" deep and about 62-64RC. The parts came back a very clean frosty grey color, and as I said hard as my exwive's breath in court.

Molten salt is known as the perfect heat treat medium for steels as all salt melts at 1460 degrees. This is far too hot for barrel work of anykind! But have seen salt bluing done many times with it, but still you don't see it a lot anymore as it can be very dangerous. I've even seen folks use it for a normalizing process as the parts can only reach a certain temp no matter how long the soak is

gary
 
How long would this process extend barrel life on a 6PPC used for target shooting ?
Has anyone used it for overbore cartridges such as the .220 Swift or the .257 Weatherby and kept record count to see how much extra life you can get out a barrel?

Hal
 
elmerdeer said:
Which is the best process to get extended barrel life, cause there are many diferrent nitriding processes;Nitreg® -
Potential-Controlled Nitriding
Nitreg®-C – Potential-Controlled Nitrocarburizing (FNC process)
Nitreg®-ONC® - see ONC®
Nitreg®-S – Potential-Controlled Nitriding of Stainless Steel
Nitreg®-Ti – Potential-Controlled Nitriding of Titanium Alloys
Nitriding
Nitrocarburizing
And does anyone do this process for barrels in canada? It would be nice to have extended barrel life on a longrange precision rifle.
Elmer
Click to expand...

May I suggest another option? A product called Dyna-Bore Coat. A nano ceramic solution that seeps into the bore which eliminates up to 100% copper and lead fouling. An easy, couple of swabs through the barrel to clean. A product that is non-removable. A product that you can install in a kit form or have us treat your barrel. The technology is out and it keeps growing. Dyna-Bore Coat was created from the necessities of USA Military.

Good Shooting,

Jason Lumetta
ExtremeGunCare
 
OK..... I'ma' try again.....

This gas nitriding @ 900degrees. Can we "blue" or blacken a BAT action this way?

BLACK!!!

??

al
 
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