S.W.A.T rifle

S

silentwarrior

Guest
I am currently enrolled in the Law Enforcement Program at Riverland College in Austin,MN. We had a meeting last week about some new classes the Program wants to get started. One of them is Tactical Manuevering. The other is sniping, my favorite. Now, if we dont get issued rifles, I have to get my own. Any suggestions on what brand, model, and caliber?? Scopes, bipods and ammunition?? I was thinking a .270 in Remington. And that may not necessarily be the rifle I would use in a tactical situation either. The shooting range that they use I guess is only 300 yds. so no real high power scopes are necessary. I was told that a 2.5x10 would be great. Most situations that S.W.A.T snipers are in are no greater than 100 yards. Thanks in advance.
 
Might be better off asking over @ www.snipershide.net - they deal with this sort of topic fairly regularly. Assuming you are serious about this, it'd probably be a better idea to ask people who actually shoot the kind of rifle you are interested in.
 
i know this probably belongs somewhere else but get a 700pst in 308 in hs stock and us optics or niteforce scope. the accuracy of these rifles will blown you away. there no benchrest rifle but they wont let you down. lenH
 
I'll have to disagree with Monte on this one....... I've BEEN over to "The Hide" as a lurker....... :eek: ..... and there've been many-N-plenty "snipers" through the years that come over here to argue.

I can't think of a better place in the world than this forum to get real accuracy answers..... they may not conform to the expected answers and they may raise the hackles of some of the wannabe "snipers" out there but these guys absolutely can build accuracy.

May I suggest that you post this question over on "General Discussion"??? Or even on the Factory/Hybrid Forum?


Were I you I'd do BOTH....... get'cherself up on Factory/Hybrid AND over at "The Hide"....... make your own decision.


al
 
Al,

While I have no doubt that some of the folks around here are without peer in their respective venues... I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that some other people may be similarly good in their niche... even if it isn't Benchrest (god forgive me for my blasphemy :rolleyes: ). I come here to glean information on specific topics; I go other places for more general questions or for other specialty subjects. Hence, my attempt to redirect the gentleman to someplace perhaps more receptive to his queries. The Factory/Hybrid forum may be a good option; just not sure that he's any less likely to get 'eaten' over there.

Monte
 
Class Gun

If I were in college and needed a rifle for your course, I would get a Savage 10FP in 308 and add a Super sniper 10x with side focus and Burris XTR rings and Ken Ferrel 20 MOA base.
 
.308 Win

Get a Remington 700 in .308 Win.
I say this caliber because the best ammo available to LE is in .308 Win. Second most LE sniper shots are closer to 75yds max, so you don't need a flat shooting super fast anything. Remember you will be shooting will from across the street, look out your window 50-75yds is about max.
Rory D.
 
Well either way I thought that the "centerfire" forum would be the place to put a question. I see that my question got moved anyway. Thanks guys for all your help!
 
I have always heard nothing but good about the 700. .308 is a common sniper round as well but I was thinking of a .270 just to save a little meat on my shoulder. Anyone object to the .270?
 
silentwarrior said:
I have always heard nothing but good about the 700. .308 is a common sniper round as well but I was thinking of a .270 just to save a little meat on my shoulder. Anyone object to the .270?
Click to expand...

I have both, in my opinion, recoil is very similar between the two. Can you use a smaller rifle for the course?
 
SilentWarrior

I am currently a sniper on one of our TACT teams. We use Rem. M700 308's.

I would strongly urge you to buy a 308 over a 270 for several reasons. One, train and practice with what you are going to use or hope to use. Two you have to consider penetration in over or under terms and last but not least quaility ammo. Hornady has this pretty much locked up with their TAP line.

I have been to several SWAT comps and everyone uses either .308, 300 Win. or .223.

If you have to buy a rifle out of your pocket then go with either a savage or remington in one of the above calibers. I like the 308 its mild recoil, good penetration, lots of good ammo, it bucks the wind good and several tac scopes are made with 308 loads already calibrated for the mil system in the scope.

A .270 just does not fit the bill here at all.
 
Another Note

Like R.DesJardin has pointed out already most Police sniper shots are 75 yards and under. One of our snipers made a 200 yard shot on a turd a couple of years ago who was throwing lots of lead at our armored car and that was the longest or one of the longest shots ever made in our field. I mention this in terms of a scope. You don't need to buy a scope with a lot of magnification. Just make sure it tracks good and has big adjustment knobs.

Hope this helps!!!
 
AVanGorder said:
I have both, in my opinion, recoil is very similar between the two. Can you use a smaller rifle for the course?
Click to expand...

I am not sure what I can use yet for caliber. More detail when the class is set up. But there was words thrown around in class of 3 common calibers, .270 300 and 308
 
CHeetahman said:
I am currently a sniper on one of our TACT teams. We use Rem. M700 308's.

I would strongly urge you to buy a 308 over a 270 for several reasons. One, train and practice with what you are going to use or hope to use. Two you have to consider penetration in over or under terms and last but not least quaility ammo. Hornady has this pretty much locked up with their TAP line.

I have been to several SWAT comps and everyone uses either .308, 300 Win. or .223.

If you have to buy a rifle out of your pocket then go with either a savage or remington in one of the above calibers. I like the 308 its mild recoil, good penetration, lots of good ammo, it bucks the wind good and several tac scopes are made with 308 loads already calibrated for the mil system in the scope.

A .270 just does not fit the bill here at all.
Click to expand...

Well, I may have to go with what everyone is saying here but for now I guess my options are open. Thanks guys for the opinions!!
 
silentwarrior said:
the 700. .308 is a common sniper round as well but I was thinking of a .270 just to save a little meat on my shoulder. Anyone object to the .270?
Click to expand...


Gentleman, can you believe that Mr. Silentwarrior wanna .270 to save some meat on his shoulder.

Mr. Silentwarrior don't you supose to be a SWAT tough man?

Mr. Silentwarrior, would you believe that .308 will be just fine.

Con
 
Ugh to a 270

I'd listen to that Cop simply cause he's been there done that?Its his "bread & butter". Your saying that the class suggested a 270 as an option? With that I'd question the leaderships expertise. 270 is an offensive deer cartridge.Its as long as a 30-06 and that went by the ways side back in the Vietnam era . But hey for the class I don't know how much shooting you'll be doing but a 223 is pleasant on the shoulder with minimal muzzle blast.
 
I'll diss the 270 as well. I think you should just take it off your list, it's not even in the same room with the .308, let alone the same class.

There are no really accurate .270 bullets available for testing your platform for intrinsic accuracy.

The cartridge is 'wayyy overlong for its potential.

There is no such thing as Match Ammo for the .270



IMO your choices should be limited to .308Win or possibly a 300WSM for a new twist on the somewhat-long-in-the-tooth 300WinMag....... IF you can handle the recoil.

The .308 Win simply defines the genre, it IS the Urban Sniper Round hands down.

I can't see ANY downside to a good .308Win/7.62 NATO setup. If you're buying off the shelf I'll strongly recommend either the Savage or Rem setups in a Tactical or Police configuration.

If you're going to have it built, I'd personally go with the .308 configuration in a 1.630 GO length with a .340nk and I'd opt for a butt that's .004 larger than the "Palma" spec listed by the reamer grinder of your choice.

If you're going to buy ready-built custom then IMO the top-o-the-heap is the product put out by The Bros Chandler over at Iron Brigade Armory....... they get beat up by the wannabe's for their "high price" but they're real-deal BTDT shooters.


Here's some good poop on the 308 http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html


hth



al
 
About the only time I've heard the .270 Win mentioned outside of say, a very rural sheriff's posse, is one of the local police SWAT training seminars that used to be held south of here a ways. A good friend of mine attended it regularly as an instructor... he mentioned some prison guards from one facility had some rifles in .270, and that they were surprisingly effective - kind of rough on the steel targets for whatever reason.

Otherwise... most of the other arguments for the .308 ring true. You can buy pretty good factory match ammo from either Federal or Black Hills. If you may even remotely consider using this as a 'duty' rifle, I'd make double-damn sure whoever builds you a rifle ensures it will cycle reliably with FGMM ammo (which is a little on the 'fat' side). Minimum spec chambers are not what you need here - both from the standpoint of you ain't shooting BR with the thing, and from the aspect of you want absolutely no ammo issues to come up... ever. Good news is, the .308 shoots disgustingly well with most chambers - no need to spec a custom chamber (sorry Al) with particular features. Pick a good gunsmith with experience in this particular area, and trust him.

IBA is a good choice; other good 'smiths include GA Precision (George Gardner), and R&D Precision (Randy Cain in Glendora CA). Actually there are a pretty fair number of them; GAP does a lot of 'volume' business and seems to have a lot of very happy customers, Randy did my rifle for me and it flat out shoots. I specifically had him go back and headspace the chamber to fit my GO/No-GO gauges (tighter than the ones that Kiff sends out apparently) that I use to set up my Savages but then my guns pretty much *never* see factory ammo - I'm not a cop wanting to do the sniper thing, I just 'game' with it in practical/tactical matches so I bear the full responsibility for it working (or not) myself - no ambulance chasing lawyers to worry about (with due apologies to any lawyers reading this).

Actually, for your 'first' rifle of this sort, a factory 'tactical' package like some folks have mentioned might be a better option... a 700PSS or a Savage 10FP w/ the HS or McMillan stock, a good mid range scope like a Leupold 3.5-10x w/ the Mk IV turrets and spend some quality time with the gun learning to shoot from various positions, working the bolt efficiently, etc. When you wear out the first barrel ;) or otherwise think you're ready to move on... you'll have a better idea of what *you* want in a custom stick.

YMMV,

Monte
 
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