Rimfire F-Class matches
- Thread starter obx22
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L
lead head
Guest
F-class
Warren
You might check over at SnipersHide.com. They have some kind of long range matches for rimfire rifles.
Larry
Warren
You might check over at SnipersHide.com. They have some kind of long range matches for rimfire rifles.
Larry
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B. Harvey
Guest
BR FClass would be great at 100 or 200 yards!
S
shot410ga
Guest
Most shooters are near a 100-300 yard range. Few are near a 600-1000 yard range. I would think a 200-500 yard event in F-class would be very popular. I would attend.
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BrentD
Guest
A 100 yd event in .22 would not be all that interesting, 200 yds is a whole lot more fun. If someone was to make up an event for anything over 200 yds I would be thrilled. It would be the ultimate in rimfire shooting. Maybe any shooting.
FWIW, I sat down and computed some approximate wind drifting for .22s to try to match that for shooting .45 calibers at 1000 yd creedmore events. BPTR style competition. The idea being to find an distance where the effect of wind on a .22 bullet (expressed in MOA) would approximate that of .45 caliber bullets in the 525-550 grs range used by long range muzzleloaders and bp cartridge rifles over 1000 competitions. That distance turned out to be about 237 yds. So, one might consider a .22 Creedmoor competition that would be in the vicinity of this distance. There is a .22 Creedmoor competition already in operation. It used more traditional rifles (late 19th century singleshots), but I do not know how formalized it is. If you want to do the same with tricked out benchrest type rifles, it would still be fun, but I'd not feel limited in competing against them with a well built falling block.
Brent
FWIW, I sat down and computed some approximate wind drifting for .22s to try to match that for shooting .45 calibers at 1000 yd creedmore events. BPTR style competition. The idea being to find an distance where the effect of wind on a .22 bullet (expressed in MOA) would approximate that of .45 caliber bullets in the 525-550 grs range used by long range muzzleloaders and bp cartridge rifles over 1000 competitions. That distance turned out to be about 237 yds. So, one might consider a .22 Creedmoor competition that would be in the vicinity of this distance. There is a .22 Creedmoor competition already in operation. It used more traditional rifles (late 19th century singleshots), but I do not know how formalized it is. If you want to do the same with tricked out benchrest type rifles, it would still be fun, but I'd not feel limited in competing against them with a well built falling block.
Brent
If the conditions are good the winning score is usually a 40. We use 1/5 scale targets as tie breakers. We used to put 6 of them at the end of the ram line, two rams, two turkeys and four chickens. It was pretty common to only leave a couple of those standing. I suggested using 1/5 scale targets at all the stations but they allow 17's and 22 mags so the smaller targets would get damaged or lost due to flying so far when hit by the hi vel rounds.
Now they use the 1/5 scale targets at the turkey distance and it's common for 8 or 9 to be knocked down. It's astounding how well modern guns can shoot and other than some of my stuff everything out there is factory.
Contrary to what you would think, if the wind starts to get weird the 17hmr kicks butt.
Now they use the 1/5 scale targets at the turkey distance and it's common for 8 or 9 to be knocked down. It's astounding how well modern guns can shoot and other than some of my stuff everything out there is factory.
Contrary to what you would think, if the wind starts to get weird the 17hmr kicks butt.
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BrentD
Guest
That is interestings. We use subsonic match ammo for the most part. Even at 200 m it takes down the rams well, though I lost a chicken once that was center shot. That was weird. We shoot chickens offhand of course.
Winning scores are in the mid 30s generally. Chickens offhand, is where it gets difficult. The little buggers dance like devils on Halloween.
Brent
Winning scores are in the mid 30s generally. Chickens offhand, is where it gets difficult. The little buggers dance like devils on Halloween.
Brent
D
dampatents
Guest
Here in the high desert
a ragtag bunch that thinks Wolf Match is the ne plus ultra in .22 fodder (and seldom shoot it because it's 'spensive), shoots 200 m rams (whatever size rams you shoot .22 silhouette at, 1/5 scale?), 150 m turkeys, 100 m pigs and 50 m chickens... (we can count only by 50)... a winning score on a somewhat calm day is usually in the low 30s and USUALLY, turkeys are the toughest. There is a prevailing myth that Hi Vel ammo is needed for rams... it's not. If there were no berms, I suppose we could lay on our bellies, but we just shoot off concrete benches using a real ragtag group of rests. Sometimes people will use a good scope, but mostly we pull them off hunting (mostly prairie dog) rifles that bounce around in the back of the truck. Oh, yeah, one last thing, we sight the rifles in on swingers at the various ranges, not before the match, and take whatever time it takes to get 10 scoring shots downrange, allegedly 10 minutes per 10. We do use a stake with a piece of orange plastic ribbon at each berm for our wind flags...
We have fun and sometimes pay attention to our spotters... After we're done with the rifles we shoot pistols at chickens (40 m), pigs (50m), turkeys (75m?) and rams (100m). Winning scores on calm days are high 30s, usually by the lone Examplar over the Contenders. All shooting done w/.22LR. We're too cheap to shoot 17HMR or even 17M2.
a ragtag bunch that thinks Wolf Match is the ne plus ultra in .22 fodder (and seldom shoot it because it's 'spensive), shoots 200 m rams (whatever size rams you shoot .22 silhouette at, 1/5 scale?), 150 m turkeys, 100 m pigs and 50 m chickens... (we can count only by 50)... a winning score on a somewhat calm day is usually in the low 30s and USUALLY, turkeys are the toughest. There is a prevailing myth that Hi Vel ammo is needed for rams... it's not. If there were no berms, I suppose we could lay on our bellies, but we just shoot off concrete benches using a real ragtag group of rests. Sometimes people will use a good scope, but mostly we pull them off hunting (mostly prairie dog) rifles that bounce around in the back of the truck. Oh, yeah, one last thing, we sight the rifles in on swingers at the various ranges, not before the match, and take whatever time it takes to get 10 scoring shots downrange, allegedly 10 minutes per 10. We do use a stake with a piece of orange plastic ribbon at each berm for our wind flags...
We have fun and sometimes pay attention to our spotters... After we're done with the rifles we shoot pistols at chickens (40 m), pigs (50m), turkeys (75m?) and rams (100m). Winning scores on calm days are high 30s, usually by the lone Examplar over the Contenders. All shooting done w/.22LR. We're too cheap to shoot 17HMR or even 17M2.
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BrentD
Guest
Sounds pretty similar to what we do. I suspect the targets are the same size. They are scaled from highpower silhouette. For instance the ram is approximately 2 MOA from belly to top of the back.
Most shooters shoot iron-sights (vernier or soule apertures) and the scope class is limited to externally adjustable scopes like Unerlt/Fecker/Winchesters or Malcom clones of less 6x or less, 3/4" tubes without pronounced bell objectives - think Unertl small game scopes.
I love to see folks that think HV ammo is needed. Always helps my score in a relative sort of way
Spotters are ignored at one's peril. Spotting board pins have been know to be discovered in the calf muscle of a stubborn shooter.
Brent
Most shooters shoot iron-sights (vernier or soule apertures) and the scope class is limited to externally adjustable scopes like Unerlt/Fecker/Winchesters or Malcom clones of less 6x or less, 3/4" tubes without pronounced bell objectives - think Unertl small game scopes.
I love to see folks that think HV ammo is needed. Always helps my score in a relative sort of way
Spotters are ignored at one's peril. Spotting board pins have been know to be discovered in the calf muscle of a stubborn shooter.
Brent
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F-Class RF
Our Club, Benton Gun Club, shoots a 200 yard F-Class 22LR Match each month. If you look at the ballistics of a 22LR Std velocity, it pretty much is the same at 200 yards as a 308 is at 1000 yards. (We do have a benchrested class in this match for those shooters that cannot/will not lay down and shoot prone.)
Great practive for reading wind and a bit frustrating!
Our CLub website is http://www.bentongunclub.org/
I'm the Match Director for it if you are intersted. Sorry no .17's or magnums allowed in this match just 22 LR.
We are in Central Arkansas.
George
Our Club, Benton Gun Club, shoots a 200 yard F-Class 22LR Match each month. If you look at the ballistics of a 22LR Std velocity, it pretty much is the same at 200 yards as a 308 is at 1000 yards. (We do have a benchrested class in this match for those shooters that cannot/will not lay down and shoot prone.)
Great practive for reading wind and a bit frustrating!
Our CLub website is http://www.bentongunclub.org/
I'm the Match Director for it if you are intersted. Sorry no .17's or magnums allowed in this match just 22 LR.
We are in Central Arkansas.
George
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BrentD
Guest
That sounds super interesting George. What sort of scores do you shoot on what sort of target?
Brent
Brent
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MKnarr
Guest
I'm also the match director for the Benchrest Silhouette matches at Farmington NM. The game was brought from El Paso about 15 - 17 years ago. Here is a drawing of the size of the targets we shoot. On the fox and coyote, the dimensions are to the sweet or largest spot on the target. On the gopher, owl and rabbit, the dimensions are the width at the widest part.
They are shot at 65, 75, 100, 150 and 200 meters. We do have a sight in period before the match starts and we also use surveyor's tape at the berms. We must shoot 10 shots in 5 minutes. Rifles used are anything from 10/22s Savage, CZ, Anschutz, 40X, 52s and full customs. We have a weight limit of 15 pounds, no one piece rests and any power scope. Ammo used ranges from Wolf MT to Eley 10X. Typical winning scores on a bad day is 44-46 and 47-49 on a good day in the master class. A good day for us, because we shoot on the top of a mesa, is a hold off of less than 5 inches at 200 meters. We have four classes A, AA, AAA and master.
These targets look huge compared to what you guys are using but in the 15 years that we have been running the match, we have had only two perfect scores of 50 targets and I have been lucky to have shot both. BTW, on a bad day, we can be holding off 15 to 20 inches.
This is not a game that requires a super accurate rifle but does require good wind reading ability and confidence that you know how to adjust your scope for each range depending on the changing conditions and you know how much to hold off for that first shot.
They are shot at 65, 75, 100, 150 and 200 meters. We do have a sight in period before the match starts and we also use surveyor's tape at the berms. We must shoot 10 shots in 5 minutes. Rifles used are anything from 10/22s Savage, CZ, Anschutz, 40X, 52s and full customs. We have a weight limit of 15 pounds, no one piece rests and any power scope. Ammo used ranges from Wolf MT to Eley 10X. Typical winning scores on a bad day is 44-46 and 47-49 on a good day in the master class. A good day for us, because we shoot on the top of a mesa, is a hold off of less than 5 inches at 200 meters. We have four classes A, AA, AAA and master.
These targets look huge compared to what you guys are using but in the 15 years that we have been running the match, we have had only two perfect scores of 50 targets and I have been lucky to have shot both. BTW, on a bad day, we can be holding off 15 to 20 inches.
This is not a game that requires a super accurate rifle but does require good wind reading ability and confidence that you know how to adjust your scope for each range depending on the changing conditions and you know how much to hold off for that first shot.
At the ERS match we are allowed unlimited sighters on a swinger. Once you start shooting the record targets you can't go back to the swinger and of course you can't pick up any missed targets. 10 mins for unlimited sighters and the 10 record targets. The range is in a deep small valley. Sometimes the wind barely messes with you and other times you loose targets for no apparent reason.
The most challenging gun I have shot in the ERS match is a 17hm2 Savage 64 I built. The thing would knock down everything but the rams. If you hit the rams on the head they would go down but otherwise you could forget it. I tried to get them to have a 'Mach2 Challenge' but no dice.
Personally I feel it should be just about impossible to shoot a clean. It should be a really rare thing instead of relying on tiebreakers or shoot offs. I also like allowing the 17's and 22 magnums but this makes it difficult to have targets that are ideal for every cartridge.
The most challenging gun I have shot in the ERS match is a 17hm2 Savage 64 I built. The thing would knock down everything but the rams. If you hit the rams on the head they would go down but otherwise you could forget it. I tried to get them to have a 'Mach2 Challenge' but no dice.
Personally I feel it should be just about impossible to shoot a clean. It should be a really rare thing instead of relying on tiebreakers or shoot offs. I also like allowing the 17's and 22 magnums but this makes it difficult to have targets that are ideal for every cartridge.
BrentD - You asked a question with a very frustating answer.
When I test ammo at 200 yards with my SAKO Finnfire from the bench, the groups hover around 1.5". When match time comes the groups open up to around 2.5" or in a lot of other shooter's cases LARGE.
Ammo, barrel twist, and wind reading are the keys. I have a little Anschutz 64 MS that shoots with anything so far as long as I shoot Eley Match EPS. Strangely the box says 1154 fps which is supersonic, but no sonic crack.
I have one Palma shooter that will not shoot the match as no matter what he does, he cannot get his gun to shoot X-ring size groups.
The targets are A-21 and no perfect score has been shot yet at our Club.
George
When I test ammo at 200 yards with my SAKO Finnfire from the bench, the groups hover around 1.5". When match time comes the groups open up to around 2.5" or in a lot of other shooter's cases LARGE.
Ammo, barrel twist, and wind reading are the keys. I have a little Anschutz 64 MS that shoots with anything so far as long as I shoot Eley Match EPS. Strangely the box says 1154 fps which is supersonic, but no sonic crack.
I have one Palma shooter that will not shoot the match as no matter what he does, he cannot get his gun to shoot X-ring size groups.
The targets are A-21 and no perfect score has been shot yet at our Club.
George
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BrentD
Guest
GEorge, I'm not familar with the size of the bull or rings of the A-21 target.
I use the traditional 25-ring Schuetzen targets which have a 1.5" bull (25 pt) and each ring is 3/4" wide.
Like you, group sizes tend to run about 1.5" which would be just within the bull, but so far, no one has shot a 250. I do not believe one has been shot even nationally. I generally shoot in the low-mid 240s with my best targets being 246-247. I don't think I have cracked a 248 yet. But I've been close.
The rifle I use is a custom built low wall set up for offhand. One of these days, I'll make a buttstock for benching. The 1" of cast off is a bear to tame at the bench, as is the drop from the toe.
Yep, ammo matters. I shoot Tenex in the 1063 range. Never seen Tenex labeled with the velocity that you are using.
Brent
I use the traditional 25-ring Schuetzen targets which have a 1.5" bull (25 pt) and each ring is 3/4" wide.
Like you, group sizes tend to run about 1.5" which would be just within the bull, but so far, no one has shot a 250. I do not believe one has been shot even nationally. I generally shoot in the low-mid 240s with my best targets being 246-247. I don't think I have cracked a 248 yet. But I've been close.
The rifle I use is a custom built low wall set up for offhand. One of these days, I'll make a buttstock for benching. The 1" of cast off is a bear to tame at the bench, as is the drop from the toe.
Yep, ammo matters. I shoot Tenex in the 1063 range. Never seen Tenex labeled with the velocity that you are using.
Brent
Hello from the Canary Islands, Spain: please sorry for my terrible english....
YES, in Spain We shot *F-CLASS RIMFIRE* as Official Discipline at 50m, 100m and 200m; and for next year also will be available for Airguns: *F-CLASS AIR* at 25m (maybe) and 50m (official). I would like to export these disciplines and convert it in an International Postal Matches like the BIPM, but I will need your help and support to do it !!!!!!!!.
F-CLASS RIMFIRE LV:
F-CLASS RIMFIRE HV:
F-CLASS AIR PCP:
So, What do you think.???????...... Would you like a new F-CLASS INTERNATIONAL POSTAL MATCHES ???????????????
C