pro shot cleaning rod& hoen bronze brush problem.....

M

matchman

Guest
I have a 6ppc rifle I'm cleaning with a pro shot stainless rod (.22 to. 26 Cal version) and a Lucas bore guide .
Using a hoen 6mm brush (measures .260) I can feal bad things happening to the rod and rifleing on the push in stroke.
What's the deal are these the wrong brushes? Rod crap? Or should I not even be cleaning with a brush?
Thanks
adam
 
What kind of bad things are you hearing? I use the same set up minus the lucas bore guide. I use a better rod guide in my opinion but nine the less you should be fine, as long as your barrel is good and wet with solvent before brushing. Lee
 
I have 2 cleaning set ups.

Dewey .22cal coated rods with .22cal Aluminium jags and Pro Shot 6mm brushes. Bore guides are Lucas. The other setup uses Pro Shot .22cal SS rods. Sounds like your setup. I decided to switch to the SS rods because I have had the coatings scratch on the Dewey rods just from a rod falling and hitting a sharp surface. I have no fear of damage with either setup but I prefer the Deweys as I use SHORT rods for the stiffness. I could not get the Pro Shot as short as the Deweys.

Anyway, what I find is key is the fit of the patch on the jag. What I mean is, the patch being able to surround the jag. Basically centering it so when the rod is pushed down the bore you do not feel the transition of the jag/patch to the threaded portion of the jag. Makes sense what I am saying???? The same goes for a brush. Sometimes I find a new brush just does not feel or fit right when pushing it down the bore. Maybe something is slightly off of center with the brush. I toss them.

The other thing I think with the Pro shot brushes is they are slightly larger than a lot of others out there or they appear to be.

Now as woody said "are you using Eliminator"? or ANY water based solvent?

If you are, the brush SQUEAKSSSSSSSSSSSSSS like hell going back and forth through the bore. That is just the nature of using water based solvents. Just make sure to dry well and treat with some EEZOX after cleaning. Oh Yah I LOVE that EEZOX........................ It smells better than Butch's Bore shine.
 
I ONCE had a squeaking, hard to pull, brush while using Eliminator and a pro shot brush. The damn brush came off the threaded gizmo, the rod came out with all the gusto of a frat boy at a kegger, and I was left with a brush stuck in a barrel. Major PITA. Since then, I still use Eliminator for soaking but not for brushing. Butches gets all my brushing duties now. Be careful, friction my be your friend when it comes to driving on ice but not when you're brushing barrels....
 
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Butches bore shine.
Patches are fine. The brushes require a excessive amount of effort to get through. The rod is deflecting rubbing the rifleing.
I will try different brushes and get the bore saturated first before brushing.
Is. 260 the correct size for 6mm?
 
No, 6mm has a groove diameter of .243. .260 would be a nominal description of 6.5mm which has a groove diameter of .264, or are you referring to what the brush measures?
 
Hi Guys!

For those of you who read this post I'm going to start by asking you a question. What are the weakest links in Matchman's choice of tools? To begin with, in my opinion, the weakest link is the twisted wire the brush is made from. I'm sure that many of you have installed a new brush on a rod and then spun it to see how true it was. If you found it to have to much run out for your taste you probably attempted to straighten the brush. And what did you find? You found that those wires bent with hardly any resistance at all.

Now what do you think is trying to happen to those same wires when shoving a brand new tight brush through a bore for the first time? They are going to try to start laying over to their weak side. If they fail further they will force the bristles on that side of the brush to cave in slightly, and by that time the rod may also start to bow.

Will a good two piece rod guide prevent this? Again, in my opinion, the answer is NO. The further the distance a brush or jag gets from the guide the less effect a guide has in controlling it. Every rod and guide combination has to have play built into it for you to use it without requiring a hammer. This play is what equates into angle of deflection, and is what starts those wires on the brush to bend to begin with.

Now, is there a way to prevent this? Yes, by using my brush guides and jags. The bore riding shoulders on my tools run about .006” under bore size (from 375 caliber down.) This allows no more then .004” in deflection from center no matter where the tool is in the bore. Feel free to visit my web site to learn more.

And for those of you reading this who are still cleaning your 6 PPCs with 22 caliber jags I highly recommend you visit my site. To the best of my knowledge, all the 6mm shooters that cleaned with 22 caliber jags never went back to them after using my 6mm jags.

I know I’m tooting my own horn here guys, but I just hate to read about shooters having problems like this and doing damage to their barrels when it could have been prevented by learning about and then using the tools I make. It’s true, my tools aren’t cheap, but it takes me about two hours to turn a jag. And not only in my opinion, but also in the opinions of my customers, my tools will do just as much to protect your bores as the best made rod guides. And when the two are used together you should be able to clean your bores with the utmost in confidence.

As always, Thank You for letting me take up your time.

Don … BRBCP … The link: http://www.boreriderbarrelcareproducts.com
 
In my opinion his weakest link is his bore guide. The insert on his guide isnt long enough to support the rod properly. I have had those types of guides, and i have heard the rod scraping against the bore while using them. Kinda defeats the point i think?? I spent a little more money and bought a better bore guide, and now i do not have those scraping issues, i once had. This is just my experience, yours my be different. lee
 
IMO a stainless rod in a stainless barrel is just asking for trouble. Yes I have some of those $65 hardened stainless rods but I have used them very little (Treso brand, Camp Perry model, made in Pagosa Springs, the place where the chicken truck hit the...).

A good plastic coated rod that is clean of any grit or gashes is best for the tiny precision bores we push our precisely made bullets through. Like I said, IMO!!
 
skeetlee said:
In my opinion his weakest link is his bore guide. The insert on his guide isnt long enough to support the rod properly. I have had those types of guides, and i have heard the rod scraping against the bore while using them. Kinda defeats the point i think?? I spent a little more money and bought a better bore guide, and now i do not have those scraping issues, i once had. This is just my experience, yours my be different. lee
Click to expand...

Hi Lee,

I take it from your description that you are either using Mr. Nolan’s rod guide or one very similar to his. And yes, I am in agreement with you in regards to the longer insert because it now cuts down on that angle of deflection I mentioned earlier. But again, because of the play that has to be allowed for between the insert and the rod, and depending on the rod and bore combination in regards to diameters, over a long enough distance your set-up could also run into trouble. If we are talking about pushing and pulling tools that fit correctly through a given length of bore then yes, Mr. Nolan’s guides do a superb job of supporting the rod. But if we are talking about running up against the added resistance of an extra tight brush just before it starts to clear the crown then the extra length of support that his insert offers over Mr. Lucas’ insert still may not be enough to keep the rod from bowing. Reason being, because the twisted wires behind the bristles are the weakest link. Picture stepping on a beer can. Where does it give first and why?

Shooters expect their rod guides to do two things. First, they want it to keep the rod from touching the bore when they are pushing a tool through, and second they want it to support the rod and tool combination and keep it off the bore when they are pulling it back. The further the tool gets away from the guide is where the trouble usually comes into play, and there is especially a need for concern when pulling tools back in over the crown. This is where some rod guides fail terribly. And to make up for that lack of support is why I developed the tools that I make. Another reason for developing my tools is because Mr. Nolan, and the other people like him that make those superb rod guides with the extra long inserts, are unable to make them for all the rod and action combinations that are used in all the shooting disciplines where a high degree of protection is required for the cleaning of those barrels from 22 rim fire through 50 caliber.

As always, IMHO Don … BRBCP …
 
HovisKM said:
Don,

What are the diameters of your 22cal & 6mm jags and brush guides.

thanks
Hovis
Click to expand...

Hi Hovis,

The bore riding shoulder on our 22 caliber jags and the brush guides themselves are .211" in diameter and the 4 patch holding segments are .166" in diameter. The bore riding shoulder on our 6mm jags and the brush guides themselves are .230" in diameter and the 5 patch holding segments are .178" in diameter. The diameters are held to + or - .001". The work is done on an old but very accurate Clausing 5900 series lathe with a Hardinge compound. The 22 caliber jags were designed to work with Sinclair's 1 1/4" round patches and the 6mm jags with their 1 1/2" round patches. Square patches can be used as long as they aren't so big that the tails of the patch try to encroach in the area of the bore riding shoulder. If they do, you won't be able to get that jag patch combination down the bore.

Thanks for inquiring!
Don ... BRBCP ...

One more thing you might be interested in. All bearing surfaces are final sanded with 1500 grit wet sand paper and then burnished. A number of our customers have commented on how smooth the retrieval of their rod now feels while using our products. You won't hear any patch holding segments clunking across your crown or your rod rattling around in your bore upon retrieval.
 
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