Prices of "black rifles" versus traditional sporters

M

Montana Pete

Guest
I have been reading ads and on-line catalogs for various rifles.

I note that many of the "black" or tactical rifles price out at as much as $1200 or even $1500, whereas more traditional bolt-action sporters can price out from about $475 to $650.

Here's my question. Do you think the companies that make the "AR-15" type rifles are gouging, because these rifles are so much in demand? I see that some companies are back ordered 6 months or more before able to make delivery.

Or -- - are the "black rifles" more expensive to manufacture, because the mechanisms are more complex?

I know I purchased a heavy-barrel Savage Varminter for just $475 and it is probably the most accurate rifle I have ever owned.

I realize my bolt-action cannot "pop pop pop pop" like the black rifles my friends shoot at the range. To me, as an old man growing up in a different world, this is not a goal in itself.

I guess I just do not understand the terrific appeal of the "black rifles." My son owns one and I have done some shooting with them.

They are really nice rifles, no question. But are they worth three to four times as much as the traditional sporter?

I realize this may be a little controvertial, but it's an honest question. I mean, I sometimes really wonder why they are so sought after.
 
Some of it well may be charging all the traffic will bear plus 10%, but AR style rifles are likely more complex to assemble than bolt actions with more fiddly little parts and pieces that need to be made to fairly tight specs if they're done right.

I've read of places where AR's had gone up in price 50% or more after the election, but around here anyway the prices didn't shoot up. The supply was sold out, but seems to be reappearing in the racks.

What I can't understand is why the new Ruger 556 is so much more expensive than direct impingement AR's unless it comes out of the box with a bunch of accessories and after market goodies. Oh well, not going to buy one anyway so it's not my problem.
 
The "kit" AR guns are back to pre-election prices.

The prices on mass produced bolt actions is about the same or cheaper than last year. Every once in a while, a Rem 700 VLS will go for $650 new. That is what my dad paid a couple of years ago.

IMHO, the customs seem to go up and up in price.

I saw a Les Baer AR in CDNN's catalog for 1499 or so. I think that is pretty much what it has been for a while for that model.

DPMS site said they were 160,000 back-ordered but had various parts.
 
Was in Cabela's here this afternoon and they had a Ruger 556 with folding iron sights for just under $1700. With the adjustable stock and its other goodies it's probably what a DPMS or Bushmaster AR would be if those parts were added. Didn't check Scheel's prices on AR's or see if they had Ruger 556's in stock though.
 
I believe it's a simple case of "what the traffic will bear". They are the "way kewl" gun to have and are priced accordingly.
 
too much techno

Pete im in the same ballpark with you. figured walnut, rust bluing, and engraving just makes me misty eyed.

while growing up iin the late 60's i recall seeing the m16's every night on the news when they would report on the war in vietnam. usually several troops holding them with one unlucky fellow wounded on the ground with them. i cant even look at these rifles without those images popping up in my head. guess that is the root of my distain for the black rifles.

no doubt my grand father had the same distain for mausers. he always had winchesters, remingtons rifles, and fox shotguns.

also , in the state i reside in one can only use the semi-autos rifles for practice as they are illegal for hunting. only semi auto shotguns are allowed. our legislators that write game laws are still in the dark ages.

Fred
 
Fred--

Another problem can be seen on a different forum than this one -- the other forum is mainly dedicated to hunting.

Guys buy black rifles because they are "real cool," as Beeman explained. Most of them are in .223.

On this other hunting forum I've described, mainly hunting forum, we now have new threads starting "let's go deer hunting with our .223's ! " Questions keep coming up like "what's the best deer load with my .223?"

My point -- they buy the rifles because of the "image" of the rifle. Once they own it, now all of a sudden -- "let's go deer hunting."

The .223 is far from an ideal choice for deer, as most of us might agree. It CAN kill a deer, but it has probably wounded a lot of them too.
 
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I am 56 years old, and little more than a year ago, scarcely knew what an AR15 was. But, once my Krieger barrel arrives this week, I will have built a high end AR15. The appeal was heavily driven by the 11/2008 election and California's hostility to such arms. Whenever authorities threaten to take something away, the natural reaction is to want it. I have two lower receivers for the Ar15 and one for the 308 AR10.

The other appeal is that they are very easy to assemble, and I like being able to make exactly what I want with only a few special tools, in the space of an hour if all parts and tools were before me. Another attractive feature is that I can use ONE lower receiver component (receiver, trigger, stock, pistol grip), and easily switch out various upper assemblies in varied calibers or other configurations. Use the quick disconnect scope mounts, and I can have just one scope as well.

Costs vary a lot because of the wide range of products and quality. You can use the heavy single stage trigger that comes in a $70 kit with all the pins and things you need, or discard that trigger and spend $279 on a Geissele 2 stage. Barrels range up to $440 (Krieger). You can buy a handguard that is $70 or a lightweight type with Picatinny rails, for as much as $300. Stocks range from $65 to near $300.

I did not buy it for the "image" it conveys to others. I bought it because of political pressures, the economy of switching upper assemblies, the huge variety of options (almost too much), the multiple calibers available for it, and to be honest, I do like the look of the thing. But, I like bolt action rifles as well.

I am not your normal AR owner, to be sure, and there are many mall Ninja types, and think they just want to be tacti-cool. I will be using mine to shoot holes in paper. My two stage trigger will not permit easy pop, pop, pop, of which I have little interest in.

On prices, these are pretty much back to normal. I can build one now, for just over $1000 without optics, or spend twice that. My next one will probably be in 6mmAR or 6.5 Grendel. I just want to see what this thing can do at long range. The AR-10 may use 260 Remington.

- Phil
 
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