Phoenix UNL 2 Gun results

Thanks for publishing the results. For those that may be curious, Lou's aggs averaged .16965, and George's averaged .16970.
 
Donald,

Missed you at Phoenix, we needed one more guy for the 12 year old to beat up on!
Sorry you couldn't make it.

MAC
 
Nevermind, I see the other post. Congrats youngster!!!!
 
Lou, you are very correct in saying that it is a tie. When targets are measured in thousandths, there is no statistical allowance to allow one to go to 50 millionths to break ties. A better way would be to use some type of Creedmore system. Maybe the person with the smallest group would be the winner. I am not saying this to disparage either man's fine shooting. Congratulations to both men on great shooting. James
 
Great Shooting!

Lou Murdica said:
If this is not a tie I don't know what it is.
I feel George won that match just as much as I did.
When you see the agg number you don't realize I how close till Don said that's in the millionths.
I have no idea how you even measure something in millionths.
Good shooting George.
Click to expand...

Great AGG CONGRATULATIONS!!! I assume that powder was LT32, what bullets have you used?
 
Tie breaking

e. If in an aggregate, 2 or more contestants are tied with aggregate measurements of identical size, their relative position shall be determined by reference to the individual targets comprising the aggregate. The contestant having the smallest group shall prevail in an aggregate, or the average of the smallest groups (M.O.A.) at 100 and 200 yards shall prevail in a grand aggregate.
It would appear that the smallest groups from all of the aggs would have to be averaged and then that determines the ranking.
 
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As I mentioned above, if you simply average the aggs. and read the answers to four places, without doing any rounding that recognizes a fifth place after the decimal, Lou prevailed by .0001. Jerry, is there an official mandate as to rounding?
 
Boyd

Why do you say Lou prevailed when the score sheet gives both a .1697? According to the current rule book (page 57) Jerry has copied the rules and the winner should be determined by small groups. Add up all four and the smallest total wins. Don
 
Don,
I ran the average of the aggs to five places, and if one only reads them to four, and disregards the fifth place, instead of rounding Lou's up, his was .1696. Since the printout listed it as .1697, I concluded that the software was written to look at the fifth digit and round up at .00005 or more. My question was really whether this (feature of the program)is by the rule book, or for that matter, if the issue had ever been thought of or addressed.
Boyd
 
If this is not a tie I don't know what it is.

lou murdica said:
if this is not a tie i don't know what it is.
I feel george won that match just as much as i did.
When you see the agg number you don't realize i how close till don said that's in the millionths.
I have no idea how you even measure something in millionths.
Good shooting george.
Click to expand...

classy!!
 
A more accurate way to figure

First off the NBRSA doesn’t recognize 2 day aggregates and certainly not 2 Grands shot with the same gun so as a range holding a match we’re on our own. – I don’t know if this official, but I’ve never saw anything in the rule book that addresses this.

At the match, when Art realized that it was a tie, we at the last moment added all four aggs and the smaller total was Lou’s, thus Lou was declared the 2 day winner.

After thinking about this, in my opinion what we should have done was add the total of the group sizes and the smaller wins. In this case George Lozano would win; data below

At 100 yards Lou’s total groups sizes are 1.569, George’s total is 1.750
At 200 yards Lou’s total is 3.648 and George’s is 3.288
Lou’s group total (100 +200) is 5.217 and George’s group total is 5.038
George’s group total is .179 smaller than Lou’s.
In effect Lou shot out .179 more paper than George.

Gary Ocock
 
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