Ouch! Need advice

B

bluechip

Guest
I have a 6PPC Remington 40XBR with a 1.625 barrel that, due to weight, I use in unsanctioned egg shoots and such. It has a bedded wood stock and the paint was getting a bit chipped so a friend said he could put a nice custom paint job on it. I told him to NOT paint the bedded area and around the recoil lug. As you may have guessed he painted everything and the put a heavy coat of clearcoat over it all. I decided to at least try it, but I had difficulty ever getting the actions screws to start and when I finally did the barrel is no longer floating. Is there such a thing as a bolt on benchrest stock or do they all need a bedding job? BTW, I bought the rifle from a man named Adrian somewhere in Texas that has sold quite a few benchrest rifles, anybody possibly know his contact info?
 
First

I would remove the paint in the action/barrel channels and have it re-bedded before I gave up on it.

Sounds gruesome, but a Dremel tool might work.
 
Sounds like you're ready to sit the stock aside anyway, so why not try removing the paint from the bedding with aircraft stripper? The bedding should be more resistant to the stripper than the fresh paint, just don't leave it on very long and keep an eye on what the bedding is doing. Better to have to do 2 or 3 quick applications in an effort to save the bedding than one longer one, I would think.
 
Did the paint job come out looking OK??? If so, sand the inlet area as well as the barrel channel. Use a piece of round stock (broom handle, etc) wrapped with light sand paper. That should take care of the top coat. Don't give up yet.;)
Mask off the area at the sides of the barrel channel and where the action sits so as not to sand past those places. From the sounds of things, at this point, you've got nothing to loose.
 
Last edited:
Paint

Get some new action screws...... long enough to hold action into stock......shoot it...... if it don`t shoot....take a dremel....... carefully remove paint from barrel channel....... be ruff on paint in action area and recoil lug area....... rebed.... making sure you have removed enough paint to use old action screws.......
bill
 
A big thanks to all who replied. Here's where I am at, I carefully sanded the bed area by hand until I was seeing just the primer, then slowly took a bit more until I could just start to see the brown bedding. It looks smooth and consistent, so it will probably be okay. I'll post the results of the test firing soon.
 
Do you know how to check the bedding when you have the paint removed? Even a smidgen of paint in the bedding area will screw up the bedding job, much less painting the complete bedding job. The purpose of bedding is to allow the action to sit in the stock without being under stress when the guard screws are tightened. A quick and dirty check to see if the action is stress free in the bedding is to set the rifle on the floor or table with the butt down. Rest your index finger between the barrel and forend. Loosen off the front guard screw. If you can feel the barrel move away from the forend, then your bedding job isn't stress free and will need to be rebedded. I've had to rebed painted stocks when I got them back from professional stock painters. Easier to rebed than it is to find and remove the fleck of paint that got in somewhere where it shouldn't have been. If you have a dial indicator, you can attach it to the barrel and rest the stylus against the forend tip. If you get more than .002" of movement between the barrel and forend tip, then the action isn't bedded stress free. By the way, the fellow Adrian is Adrian Kunce from Borger, Tx. His phone number at his photography studio is (806)274-5259. Adrian used to shoot benchrest at Raton, but haven't seen him in several years. I figure he is in his 80's now. You will not find any benchrest rifles with a pressure point at the forend. They are all completely free floated with a large free float. No such thing as the dollar bill free float that the gun writers used to write about in the gun mags in the 70's when it comes to benchrest rifles. More like a 1/8" freefloat on most of them. If that barrel hits the stock when it vibrates, it will not shoot and is a sign of too little freefloat.
 
Mike Bryant said:
Do you know how to check the bedding when you have the paint removed? Even a smidgen of paint in the bedding area will screw up the bedding job, much less painting the complete bedding job. The purpose of bedding is to allow the action to sit in the stock without being under stress when the guard screws are tightened. A quick and dirty check to see if the action is stress free in the bedding is to set the rifle on the floor or table with the butt down. Rest your index finger between the barrel and forend. Loosen off the front guard screw. If you can feel the barrel move away from the forend, then your bedding job isn't stress free and will need to be rebedded. I've had to rebed painted stocks when I got them back from professional stock painters. Easier to rebed than it is to find and remove the fleck of paint that got in somewhere where it shouldn't have been. If you have a dial indicator, you can attach it to the barrel and rest the stylus against the forend tip. If you get more than .002" of movement between the barrel and forend tip, then the action isn't bedded stress free. By the way, the fellow Adrian is Adrian Kunce from Borger, Tx. His phone number at his photography studio is (806)274-5259. Adrian used to shoot benchrest at Raton, but haven't seen him in several years. I figure he is in his 80's now. You will not find any benchrest rifles with a pressure point at the forend. They are all completely free floated with a large free float. No such thing as the dollar bill free float that the gun writers used to write about in the gun mags in the 70's when it comes to benchrest rifles. More like a 1/8" freefloat on most of them. If that barrel hits the stock when it vibrates, it will not shoot and is a sign of too little freefloat.
Click to expand...

A giant thanks Mike, your reply had more useful info. in it than any reply I have ever seen! One thing now, I have the rifle back together and the POI has changed a lot, so the bedding is probably shot. Should the tightness of the two trigger guard screws and the front screw have an effect on POI and accuracy?
 
I don't know if you are old enough to remember anything about Bob Pease from New Braunfels, TX. He sold a lot of accuracy products in the 70's and 80's with several booklets on accuracy, mostly using what he sold. He was big into hunter class which couldn't be a glued in action and had to be bedded. One of the ways that he said to check bedding was to loosen off a guard screw, shoot a shot. Retighten that guard screw and loosen off the rear guard screw, shoot a shot. Tighten that guard screw and now with both guard screws tight, shoot a shot. If the bedding job was stress free, then it should shoot pretty well into the same hole. Of course, subject to the accuracy of the rifle. If it's a 1/2" rifle, the group should be a 1/2" group. Just shows that with a good stress free bedding job, how tight the guard screws are is immaterial.
 
I bought quite a bit of stuff from Bob Pease. I'd get cussed out for being stupid with every phone call. In spite of that...I'd call when I needed something, get cussed out for being stupid, hang up and laugh about it. I think he liked me......! I can tell you this for sure, he did not ship you anything two day air unless you got a cussin'.
 
bluechip said:
A giant thanks Mike, your reply had more useful info. in it than any reply I have ever seen! One thing now, I have the rifle back together and the POI has changed a lot, so the bedding is probably shot. Should the tightness of the two trigger guard screws and the front screw have an effect on POI and accuracy?
Click to expand...

Based on what your painter did, you are unlikely to be able to sand your way to Nirvana. Trying to whittle on a stock to make it fit the action is what people used to try to do before the invention of epoxy. Just put a ball cutter on your Dremel tool and go at it. Use a heavy hand. Remove the paint and at least .100" of the old bedding and then re-bed the action. It's easy and there are plenty of on-line video examples. Find a dowel near the size of your barrel and go at the forearm area. Get rid of the paint until your barrel is free floated again, then use finer sand paper, and finally, depending on what's under the paint, you might want to seal the stock if necessary.

Bedding is NOT rocket surgery. Just be sure to do proper prep work, including masking off your new paint job. The Internet has plenty of detailed information. Read several of them.
 
If I may....I've had this happen more times than I care to remember both with "stock painters" and with "Cerakoters" they just don't get it!

IMO you need to re-bed.

period.

And I'll offer this method which WILL work and will cost you little money but a bunch of time.

To make it easy you need one of these http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...tting-tools/barrel-bedding-tool-prod6796.aspx but you can get by with something home made, even as simple as using the rounded end of a hacksaw blade. (look at "bedding scrapers" at Brownell's to get ideas) The key is that you must SCRAPE out the problem. Only scraping will easily give you a nicely relieved surface, ready for the bedding compound to bond to.


So here's what you do......


You say you've got it "close" but poi has changed. I'll opine that the alignment is probably close enough....now you have to KEEP IT. You do this by wrapping the barrel with masking tape at the forend until it sets just exactly where you want it. Now you can SCRAPE OUT everything except a small tab in front of the rear action screw. Just leave a small spot for the action to set on, literally 1/8 inch of a shelf. When done properly the action will set in the stock suspended between this tiny point and the masking tape at the forend.

You go to a good hardware store or a bolt supply.... or you order online a 12" plus hunk of 1/4X28 allthread. Hacksaw the 12" piece in half to give yourself 2 pieces around 6" long. Now take the hacksaw and cut screw slots in the ends of the two hunks. These are your alignment tools, your action bedding studs http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...olt-action-rifle-bedding-studs-prod41022.aspx sometimes called "inletting screws"

You wrap these screws with masking tape to bush them out to a smooth slip-fit thru your stock screwholes.

You put the bolt into the rifle for a handle and you make sure you can lift the assembly in and out freely and that it sets perfectly.

Now you BED IT :)

You bed it RIGHT.

It ain't that hard.

If you have a plan.

Number ONE, and no deviation here, you go down to the dime store and buy a tin of Kiwi neutral shoe polish. This is your release agent. DO NOT get suckered into Brownell's release agent nor any other "bedding kit." DO NOT even consider any sort of spray-on-from-a-can garbage......just use Kiwi neutral.

period.

Don't use it just yet though, it's enough that you HAVE it.....set it aside and mask off your stock. set the stock in a vee holder so it's standing level and flat, ready to receive the barreled action. flat. Don't clamp it in a vise unless the vise is well away from the area to be bedded. carefully run the tape flat along the outline if the inlet. Sometimes trimming with a razor knife is hoovis. set it up to catch all the ooze that will come out. the best thing to grab the ooze and get rid of it is paper towel on a mounted stand so's you can one-hand it, and small square-ended stirring sticks https://www.amazon.com/Birch-Stirre...348502&sr=8-3&keywords=wooden+coffee+stirrers

Mask off front and bottom of recoil lug. I like to polish the sharp edges off some recoil lugs so's they can't shave to bedding compound going back in.....

Wipe down all the metal with the shoe polish. scrub it in everywhere, let it get into the screw holes and up onto the barrel. wipe everything down.......set it aside.....DO NOT put it back in to check fit!

Leave to bolt in the action but retracted for a handle


The bedding compound will be Brownell's Acra-Glas GEL.....note the GEL part. for this you will need large and medium popsicle sticks although just one or the other will get you by. Just needs to be strong enough to stir the thick, honey-like gel without breaking. "Broken, not stirred" is bad. In this case I'd use a small plastic cup about the size of a wide shotglass.


After the kiwi polish has set for maybe 10 minutes WIPE IT ALL OFF!!!! I mean SCRUB it off with a paper towel, POLISH it off and coat it again.

Do this twice. POLISHING it back off with paper towels.

Now you stand back and take out the slack......deep breaths, think it through.

Does the action lift in and out smoothly and return to where you want it?

YES

Do you have an idea where the ooozy glue is going to go?

YES

Do you have all the liddle notches and holes where's you DON'T want the ooozy glue filled with modeling clay, paper or taped off?

Do you have a layer of tape on front and bottom of recoil lug?

OK THEN.........

Mix and pour.

DO have a selection of popsicle stix, stirring sticks and paper towel handy. And a garbage can, large top.

Dip and stir the stuff into the stock using "more than needed" (It'll wipe up, now's NOT the time to conserve on amount of mix.....) as it oozes remove it with the sticks and paper towel, throw the towel away WITHOUT folding it over and using that clean spot :)

Just let the gun settle using only your hands to help it. DO NOT, EVER use the action screws to tighten it in. Most bedding jobs are crewed up exactly this way...GRAVITY is your friend....and "stress-free" your watchword



White vinegar works well for cleanup altho it smells like dung. Wipe all the joints with it.

Keep coming back and checking for about an hr to see if it's settled/oozed some more.

It may (probably will) drip on the floor, put down some newspaper.

Remember these things;

The barreled action WILL NOT lock into the stock unless you mechanically trap it by wrapping over the top or something. Take it out 20-30hrs from time of work (next day) by holding the forend and pistol grip and gently slapping the barrel down onto a padded chair. once the initial seal is broken work it up and out, back and forth, barrel and bolt, fingers and thumbs, the tape's probably hung up in the holes....

WORST CASE scenario remember that epoxy degrades at 250 or so degrees......you ain't gonna bust nuttin'........you can always get it out with some heat and start over.

Anything you missed the first time can be easily patched with a "Skim coat" which is just a re-bed but using much less material and setting into an only slightly over-sized hole....you'll LOVE your new scrapers for this.

As has been said, watch some youtube......I kinda' just rattled this together. Others have compiled some nicely comprehensive vids

hth
 
alinwa said:
If I may....I've had this happen more times than I care to remember both with "stock painters" and with "Cerakoters" they just don't get it!

IMO you need to re-bed.

period.

And I'll offer this method which WILL work and will cost you little money but a bunch of time.

To make it easy you need one of these http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...tting-tools/barrel-bedding-tool-prod6796.aspx but you can get by with something home made, even as simple as using the rounded end of a hacksaw blade. (look at "bedding scrapers" at Brownell's to get ideas) The key is that you must SCRAPE out the problem. Only scraping will easily give you a nicely relieved surface, ready for the bedding compound to bond to.


So here's what you do......


You say you've got it "close" but poi has changed. I'll opine that the alignment is probably close enough....now you have to KEEP IT. You do this by wrapping the barrel with masking tape at the forend until it sets just exactly where you want it. Now you can SCRAPE OUT everything except a small tab in front of the rear action screw. Just leave a small spot for the action to set on, literally 1/8 inch of a shelf. When done properly the action will set in the stock suspended between this tiny point and the masking tape at the forend.

You go to a good hardware store or a bolt supply.... or you order online a 12" plus hunk of 1/4X28 allthread. Hacksaw the 12" piece in half to give yourself 2 pieces around 6" long. Now take the hacksaw and cut screw slots in the ends of the two hunks. These are your alignment tools, your action bedding studs http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...olt-action-rifle-bedding-studs-prod41022.aspx sometimes called "inletting screws"

You wrap these screws with masking tape to bush them out to a smooth slip-fit thru your stock screwholes.

You put the bolt into the rifle for a handle and you make sure you can lift the assembly in and out freely and that it sets perfectly.

Now you BED IT :)

You bed it RIGHT.

It ain't that hard.

If you have a plan.

Number ONE, and no deviation here, you go down to the dime store and buy a tin of Kiwi neutral shoe polish. This is your release agent. DO NOT get suckered into Brownell's release agent nor any other "bedding kit." DO NOT even consider any sort of spray-on-from-a-can garbage......just use Kiwi neutral.

period.

Don't use it just yet though, it's enough that you HAVE it.....set it aside and mask off your stock. set the stock in a vee holder so it's standing level and flat, ready to receive the barreled action. flat. Don't clamp it in a vise unless the vise is well away from the area to be bedded. carefully run the tape flat along the outline if the inlet. Sometimes trimming with a razor knife is hoovis. set it up to catch all the ooze that will come out. the best thing to grab the ooze and get rid of it is paper towel on a mounted stand so's you can one-hand it, and small square-ended stirring sticks https://www.amazon.com/Birch-Stirre...348502&sr=8-3&keywords=wooden+coffee+stirrers

Mask off front and bottom of recoil lug. I like to polish the sharp edges off some recoil lugs so's they can't shave to bedding compound going back in.....

Wipe down all the metal with the shoe polish. scrub it in everywhere, let it get into the screw holes and up onto the barrel. wipe everything down.......set it aside.....DO NOT put it back in to check fit!

Leave to bolt in the action but retracted for a handle


The bedding compound will be Brownell's Acra-Glas GEL.....note the GEL part. for this you will need large and medium popsicle sticks although just one or the other will get you by. Just needs to be strong enough to stir the thick, honey-like gel without breaking. "Broken, not stirred" is bad. In this case I'd use a small plastic cup about the size of a wide shotglass.


After the kiwi polish has set for maybe 10 minutes WIPE IT ALL OFF!!!! I mean SCRUB it off with a paper towel, POLISH it off and coat it again.

Do this twice. POLISHING it back off with paper towels.

Now you stand back and take out the slack......deep breaths, think it through.

Does the action lift in and out smoothly and return to where you want it?

YES

Do you have an idea where the ooozy glue is going to go?

YES

Do you have all the liddle notches and holes where's you DON'T want the ooozy glue filled with modeling clay, paper or taped off?

Do you have a layer of tape on front and bottom of recoil lug?

OK THEN.........

Mix and pour.

DO have a selection of popsicle stix, stirring sticks and paper towel handy. And a garbage can, large top.

Dip and stir the stuff into the stock using "more than needed" (It'll wipe up, now's NOT the time to conserve on amount of mix.....) as it oozes remove it with the sticks and paper towel, throw the towel away WITHOUT folding it over and using that clean spot :)

Just let the gun settle using only your hands to help it. DO NOT, EVER use the action screws to tighten it in. Most bedding jobs are crewed up exactly this way...GRAVITY is your friend....and "stress-free" your watchword



White vinegar works well for cleanup altho it smells like dung. Wipe all the joints with it.

Keep coming back and checking for about an hr to see if it's settled/oozed some more.

It may (probably will) drip on the floor, put down some newspaper.

Remember these things;

The barreled action WILL NOT lock into the stock unless you mechanically trap it by wrapping over the top or something. Take it out 20-30hrs from time of work (next day) by holding the forend and pistol grip and gently slapping the barrel down onto a padded chair. once the initial seal is broken work it up and out, back and forth, barrel and bolt, fingers and thumbs, the tape's probably hung up in the holes....

WORST CASE scenario remember that epoxy degrades at 250 or so degrees......you ain't gonna bust nuttin'........you can always get it out with some heat and start over.

Anything you missed the first time can be easily patched with a "Skim coat" which is just a re-bed but using much less material and setting into an only slightly over-sized hole....you'll LOVE your new scrapers for this.

As has been said, watch some youtube......I kinda' just rattled this together. Others have compiled some nicely comprehensive vids

hth
Click to expand...

Well said. I appreciated your advice. Thanks.
 
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