Alright i will try to explain this the best i can here. On gordys video he indexes the barrel so the run out is up. To do this he has to cut the tenon a little longer than his original cut so that the barrel hit were he wants it on the action. He made a .019" longer cut on the tenon shoulder but i never saw himtake that much off the back end or chamber end. So my question is, does the tenon or shank or whatever you want to call it have to be a certain lenght, or can it vary a little? Like i said i didnt see him cut the extra lenght off the back but that doesnt mean that he didnt do it? I would think you would have to myself, but what do i know? Lee
ordy video queston. indexing.
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Did he have the chamber cut and did he have the cone cut. Remember, the tenon shoulder is the baseline data point from which you measure the chamber headspace and the cone (or counterbore on some). The tenon being a few thousands short (not over about 0.050" or so) may be ok, but if it is too long there may not be sufficient clearance in the action to allow much extra length. MILTD. (Make It Like The Drawing!!)
This business of muzzle wobble and indexing just doesn't make sense...to me.
This business of muzzle wobble and indexing just doesn't make sense...to me.
Wayne Shaw
Active member
I haven't seen the video, but I have done chambers (in the past) with the muzzle pointed up. After you have the barrel dialed in and you have "up" marked, you have to thread the tenon and screw on the action to see how it aligns. The only thing you can do is take cuts off the shoulder to allow the action to come into time with the muzzle. Once that is done, you have to cut the tenon to length, cone or recess it, and chamber it. Not sure how else to do it.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Wayne, I see where your method will work for a non-glued action, but what about a glued action? With the barrel flopping around you sure can't keep removing and replacing the barrel in the lathe.
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eww1350
Guest
Jerry...I'd bet that Gordy doesn't do "glue-ins"....it would be interesting to read how he would index a barrel "muzzle-up" for a glued-in action...!
Eddie in Texas
Eddie in Texas
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IndianaJames
Guest
Hasn't anyone else thought, you just un-glue the action? Glue it back in when you get the barrel finished.
Jim
Jim
Wayne Shaw
Active member
Well, you use tools and methods to locate where to mark the barrel after you chamber it. I see no reason the same method would not work on locating the top-dead-center of the action to time it with the barrel pointing up, if that is what you want to do.
Ungluing an action just to fit a barrel is a lot of un-necessary work, IMO.
Ungluing an action just to fit a barrel is a lot of un-necessary work, IMO.
Dan H
New member
For years Dwight Scott has been chambering my barrels, I took the glued in action/stock to him one time, after that all new barrels came to me with the cal., neck, date, barrel #, stamped or etched in exactly the same, readable spot in relationship to the stock w/barrel screwed on. Must be some magic in the numbers (dimensions). The headspace was also perfect, go figure.
Dan Honert
Dan Honert
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eww1350
Guest
I thought the whole idea when chambering a barrel for a glue-in (first time you've had the rifle)...is to make all the dimensions just right while the barrel is in the lathe...if you have to remove it check for fit and them put it back in the lathe to finalize the dimensions...you are doing it twice...if one can index a barrel muzzle up on a glued-in action without screwing the barrel into the action to find top ...must have something in hand that duplicates that exact action...
Eddie
Eddie
That "something" is what Sam Duke alluded to in his post. All you need is a female threaded stub that duplicates the actions you barrel. You will add index marks on the circumference of it at the barrel shoulder end of it. When you do the first barrel on an action you will mark where your engraving will go and then you thread your threaded stub "gizzie" on the tenon and make a note in your records where your engraving mark on the barrel indexes with the marks on the gizzie. Now when you do a barrel for the customers action and it's a glue in or the customer just calls and orders a barrel you can use your gizzie to show you where the engraving needs to go.
Jay Cutright
New member
This is how I have been doing it,but, I call it a ring gauge instead of a "gizzy". You can mark TDC of the action, the stock line for your #'s and you can use a depth micrometer across the end of the gauge to read your headspace from the center of the "GO" gauge. This makes it possible to duplicate barrels to within a couple tenths. I also make up a male that will screw into the ring gauge that has a male cone angle cut to measure the depth of the cut on a coned breach.
I had my first tools made for me, to fit the BAT actions. I made my own for the others as I needed them after I bought all the internal threading and boring tools I needed to do the job.
John Lewis did an article on this in Precision Shooting magazine a couple years ago, you should look for a copy of it.
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I do like these other guys, just make an "action ring" or "ring gage" or whatever ya' wanna' call it............... In fact I make several, one for gaging rotation, one for gaging the tenon cutoff (your original question.... which BTW is YES!!!! lissen to Sharrett!!! the tewnon MUST be made to proper length) and at least one for lapping. It's kinda cool to spin a little ring on and polish the t'reads up.
I useta' make up a split ring with a couple stubs welded on and a long "stop gage" for headspacing ther reamed chamber directly but nowadays I just hand-drive the reamer against a dial indicator and have no trouble keeping multiple chambers within a thou of same depth. I routinely foreform in one barrel, shoot in others and can interchange cases between barrels at will. If I choose to.
I do this for personal reasons........ I like top set up a press for a given chambering and just crawl over and USE it 'stead of "setting up the dies" every blinkin' time. I get perty cocky about this. The other day I chambered up a .325 barrel and started shooting. 5 cases, about 50rds fired load/shoot load/shoot and I thought "Huhhh, maybe I'd better check to see if these cases are growing!"
they weren't
al
I useta' make up a split ring with a couple stubs welded on and a long "stop gage" for headspacing ther reamed chamber directly but nowadays I just hand-drive the reamer against a dial indicator and have no trouble keeping multiple chambers within a thou of same depth. I routinely foreform in one barrel, shoot in others and can interchange cases between barrels at will. If I choose to.
I do this for personal reasons........ I like top set up a press for a given chambering and just crawl over and USE it 'stead of "setting up the dies" every blinkin' time. I get perty cocky about this. The other day I chambered up a .325 barrel and started shooting. 5 cases, about 50rds fired load/shoot load/shoot and I thought "Huhhh, maybe I'd better check to see if these cases are growing!"
they weren't
al
Useta' be there was a fellow on here a lot name of Skip Otto, a toolman of the first water. Now The Skipper was an inveterate and indefatigable investigator of things investigatable. He invested an inordinate of time in considering the conundrum of the crooked cartridge case and connoting therefrom.
He squared caseheads.
I contended he was barking up the proverbial wrong tree, that the proper fix was to MAKE straight cases, fuh'GIDDABOUT squaring them up after the fact.
He considered me a wild-eyed instigator.
He also advocated "seating long to fireform."
I contended otherwise.
He advised me against tangling with bears......
etc
etc
But here's the real difference (VIVE' la Difference!!) The Skipster DID stuff....... he realio trulio TESTED stuff. And I'm proud to say Skipper rode off into the sunset NOT squaring caseheads but instead making them square during fireforming.
Miss You Skip.......RIP
al