Norma 300 WSM Brass

T

Tod Soeby

New member
I just got done prepping and sorting all of my brass for the summer. I was VERY suprised when I weighed up my brass. The Norma 300 WSM brass weighs about 30 grains more than my Norma 340 WBY brass.

Not a big deal...just suprised me.:)

Does anyone think the WSM brass will stand up better than the WBY brass?
 
Tod, the WSM brass is much better brass than the 340 wby. The primer pockets will out last anything I've used yet . If they made the 340 like they do the WSM it would probably cost a lot more. Or maybe its harder at the web than the other stuff.

Joe Salt
 
Tod,
I got somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 firings out of my Norma 300WSM brass before developing any problems. Stopped counting at 30, but only went a few more before I split 2 of them at the body/shoulder junction. Of course it happened at the 2008 Nationals. Primer pockets were still tight though.
---------------Jeff
 
In 2008 I found a stellar load for my 300 WBY at about 2750. Powderpuff load pure and simple, but it shot very well and the brass lasted forever. 2009 my load for my "good" bbl was north of 3000, and I ended up pulling the back of a case off at the Nationals with about 2 min left in the sighter period and had to switch guns/ rests (OUCH). Brass life was less than half. I am just starting load development for the 300WSM. I found one load at aroud 2750 and another just shy of 2900. I was thinking about working with the powderpuff load first for the extended brass life I would get. I was doing a little work on the computer and with the 210 Berger, for each 1 MPH of wind at 1K costs me about 1/2 inch per 100 FPS. Just trying to weigh the cost of brass vs the cost in score/group size a "powderpuff" load would cost me. Maybe with "GOOD" brass it is less of a concern.

Just rambling.....
Tod
 
TOD, NOTICED you said the backs pulled of your 300wby, I have said this before to a few, that if you head space of the shoulder this is what you will eventually end up doing, anything with belts need to be head spaced of the belt. Your working the brass to much. It will start as a light ring then end up seperating just in front of the belt. Had this happen to me years ago but have not had the problem since, only the primer pockets get lose. I don't think you will have that happen with the 300wsm brass. Even with stiff loads primer pockets Should last.

Joe Salt
 
the only time i lost primer pockets in a 30 WSM, was shooting a lot of H4350 behind a 185 VLD berger. they are dam tough cases!
 
Joe Salt said:
TOD, NOTICED you said the backs pulled of your 300wby, I have said this before to a few, that if you head space of the shoulder this is what you will eventually end up doing, anything with belts need to be head spaced of the belt. Your working the brass to much. It will start as a light ring then end up seperating just in front of the belt. Had this happen to me years ago but have not had the problem since, only the primer pockets get lose. I don't think you will have that happen with the 300wsm brass. Even with stiff loads primer pockets Should last.

Joe Salt
Click to expand...

I am a little slow, so bear with me. Explain, exactly, how you headspace off of the belt. My system is to take my bolt apart and set the die so that the bolt will close about 50% by gravity alone. Just the slightest little help from me the last 50%. This translates to about .001 to .0015 sholder bump. I have no idea how to headspace off of the belt, and I have been doing this for a while. You cant adjust the belt or the headspace of the gun, so I just don't grasp the concept.:eek:

Actualy, I would much rather just neck size only. I have had good luck, accuracy wise, and cases lasted longer. But......everyone shouts at the top of thier lungs to FL size on every firing. And, a lot of the guys yelling this are WORLD CLASS SHOOTERS with whom I respect very much!!!!. Who-N-L am I to argue!!!:D:D:D

Thanks for the responces. :) I know we have kinda strayed from the WSM to the WBY, but it is all good stuff.
Tod
 
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Tod, the Go Gage is .217 and the no-go is.221 if that helps. All I know is Rick Picceretta told me that was why I was getting head seperation. And yes that is all I do is Neck size only, I also anneal after three or four firings. And if they start to get tight I have a collet die that I use.

Joe Salt
 
Mr Salt,

"...I have said this before to a few, that if you head space of the shoulder this is what you will eventually end up doing, anything with belts need to be head spaced of the belt. "

"Tod, the Go Gage is .217 and the no-go is.221 if that helps. All I know is Rick Picceretta told me that was why I was getting head seperation. And yes that is all I do is Neck size only...."


I don't understand how you are headspacing off of the belt by neck sizing, how does this work?

Thanks,
davejones
 
People curse belts on cartridge cases but they actually give you an option that can increase case life as is being discussed.

The specs for headspace on all belted cases is the same and in that 0.004" range that Joe quotes. Then the cases are all shorter in the case head to belt dimension than that so that any case will fit in even a minimum spec chamber. This tolerance stack can add up to quite a bit and the result is case stretch. So far there is no advantage over headspacing off the shoulder.

But, if the chamber is cut to just allow the lot of brass that you have chosen to work with to headspace off the belt with minimum clearance (0.001" or a little less) the first shot can't stretch the case. Moreover, you can never shorten case life and cause separations because the case can't go into the chamber farther than the belt allows regardless of where the shoulder is set during full lenth sizing. If the case is sized short to the shoulder compared to the chamber it just blows the shoulder forward instead of blowing the case head back and stretching the case at the web. You still get to use the rifle as a gauge to minimum full length size your brass with bolt feel. Or you can do what Joe does and just neck size because you can't get the case shucking back and forth in the chamber and getting tighter with each firing.

The only limitation to this approach is that switching to a different brand of brass in your much less than SAMMI minimum chamber might might not be possible. If you use Norma or RWS brass as the gauge to cut the chamber then domestic brass will probably fit fine as it is usually shorter to the belt than those brands.

Greg
 
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Thank you Greg, Very good explanation. And yes it keeps the stretching to a minium. All that is neededis to neck size.;)

Joe Salt
 
Tod
If your using custom dies fitted to your chamber/reamer full length size your cases each firing and don't look back.
If your not neck size your cases and bump about every 3-4 firings or when they get tight.
Whenever you get on a forum such as this one make sure the expert your reading about is shooting a 300 Weatherby and using the same dies as yourself.Also make sure the expert finished significantly higher than you did.

You probaly weren't here long enough to listen to all the experts on tuners but it was a real circus back then.You wouldn't believe what those same experts are saying today.Not trying to start WWIII just be careful of the experts.:rolleyes:
Waterboy
 
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Lynn, Are you the Expert. I'm just trying to help people find answers,To the best of my abilities. But who am I!:rolleyes:

Joe Salt
 
Joe
I'm not the expert nor even the flea on the experts butt.I like you give advice based on what I see with my own two eyes and not what I hear from others.
Waterboy
 
Lynn, I've even helped people with head seperation at national events, and explained to them why it was happening. I believe some brass will take just so much full length sizing, the ones with belts that is. I haven't had not one head come apart in years so that must count for something. I try different things and if they work for me I'm not afraid to share them with people. I'm not afraid to get beat, been beat quite a bit by my students, they pay attention!:)

Joe Sal
 
Joe
My posts are not directed at you.I am just telling Tod to be careful of following what others are doing as there set-up is likely different than his.
Waterboy
 
That's alright Lynn, if I'm wrong I can take it. Sometimes it sounds worse when you type things on here than if you were talking on the phone or in person. So don't worry about that part just putting my two cents in.;)

Joe Salt
 
:mad:
Lynn said:
Tod
If your using custom dies fitted to your chamber/reamer full length size your cases each firing and don't look back.
If your not neck size your cases and bump about every 3-4 firings or when they get tight.
Whenever you get on a forum such as this one make sure the expert your reading about is shooting a 300 Weatherby and using the same dies as yourself.Also make sure the expert finished significantly higher than you did.

You probaly weren't here long enough to listen to all the experts on tuners but it was a real circus back then.You wouldn't believe what those same experts are saying today.Not trying to start WWIII just be careful of the experts.:rolleyes:
Waterboy
Click to expand...

I make a special point of listening to guys I know to be the best of the best!! As far as FL dies go, the only gun that I have custom dies for is my Dasher, which is the only gun that has and does give me fits....:mad::mad:. I don't know the problem, but it was always a problem. Even as a 220 swift, the most I could get out of it was around 3700 fps with 50 gr pills. I think the soulution lies in the letters B A T!!!:D;)

FOR SALE....REM 700 ACTION....LOADED...Low, low miles......driven to church by my grammy on sundays.

HEY...If you can't trust a car salesman..........;)
 
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Tod
I buy custom dies for all my guns and the one common thing I see is they don't move the brass enough so you fight the bolt click.They seem to size your brass just enough to keep you tea'd off the whole time.Eventually you break down and order another die that is tighter and all is finaly good.


Joe Salt
I am not refferring to you or your posts in any of my responses above.
Waterboy
 
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Lynn said:
Tod
I buy custom dies for all my guns and the one common thing I see is they don't move the brass enough so you fight the bolt click.They see size your brass just enough to keep you tea'd off the whole time.Eventually you break down and order another die that is tighter and all is finaly good.
Click to expand...

LOL!!

That's the voice of experience I hear! ;)

Jeepers Lynn, perty soon you'll be ordering your chambers fat!

:D

al
 
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