No turn necks, 4198. Kinda fun trying out stuff.

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
A bunch of us were at Tomball today, I figured I would try something a tad different. 4198 in my 6ppc LV.

I loaded until it hit a flat 3400 fps, (27.5 grns), and tuned from there. I tried several combinations, settled on 27.1 grns, a hard jam with the Barts 65 grn Boat Tails, and .001 neck tension.

In between rain showers, these are 4 groups I shot with that combination. Extraction was easy, primers looked good, and the Rifle didn't do anything weird.

This was also with no neck turn cases in a .274 chamber, thrown charges, not weighed.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15895&stc=1&d=1424060401
 

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4198 works well in the 6PPC. Two years ago at Holotn, while Perry Morton was still with us, I was shooting 27 grains or so and shooting mid 2's and small 3's in the final targets of the 100 yard portion. Perry came over for something and we were talking about when he and Hascuster used to shoot a lot of it. He said to back off to 24 grains! I backed off to 25g and my next 3 groups were mid 1's....and then we moved to 200.

What I was shooting was IMR4198 which is some slower than H4198 I think.
 
Wayne Shaw said:
When the weather gets hot, that stuff will spike so quick it will ruin brass in one firing.
Click to expand...

Wayne, that is what everyone says. Although it doesn't seem to do it in a 30BR.

Of course, a 6PPC and a 30BR are entirely different animals. Typical 30BR cases seem to last forever, even at 3000+ fps with a 112, while most 6PPC cases are toast at about 6 firings when approaching 3400 with a 65.

I think the 27.1 grn load might be too hot. I didn't change it because the Rifle was shooting real good. I wanted to get at least four 5 shot groups on paper between the rain showers to get an idea how it would agg. I think a load down in the the 3320 range would be better, if you can get it to agg. It's been so long since I shot anything but 133 in a 6PPC that I really don't know how 4198 will react when it gets warm.
 
I would guess it has to do with the case and hole size. Like everyone, I've shot H4198 in a 30BR from freezing to upper 90s and never changed a thing. Big exit hole is all I can think of.
 
Jackie, please watch the temps. when using H4198 in the 6 PPC. Turk was shooting it at the old Hub City range in Lafayette and early in the morning he was shooting dots. By noon he was blowing primers. Don Geraci used 4198 quite a lot when he was shooting and he has stated the same thing.....i.e. it is very sensitive to temperature changes. Good shooting.....James
 
I played with it for several years, just in practice. Could have built a rifle for the brass that was ruined. You don't even need a temp change....watch the barometric pressure and humidity. I have talked to a few that have plotted the curve....it smooths out and becomes consistent on a 30.

Hovis
 
I did the same thing back in the day before 133. Had an RFD action one time that i wasnt sure was gonna make it i had to clean the firing pin raceway so many times. Took 5 mins to shoot a group. That morning was shooting dots. Made 322 look like a model of stability.
 
no turn necks 4198 kinda fun trying out stuff

H 4198 works fine up to 70 degrees or so after that switch to your other powders, Its a great winter powder.
The key is not to shoot it too hot' Most people overload with it.
26 grs works nicely up until late spring. Remember to use a primer with a thick cup also like the BR 4 or 7 1/2
 
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Interesting info for sure, however I have a question. Back when other guys like Turk were shooting H4198, and reporting pressure problems due to the increase in pressure, it was just H4198, The question is now H4198 Extreme is whats available, and as I understand the Extreme labeling this meant that the powder is more temperature stable, is that correct? Probably still needs to be tested, to be sure.
 
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no turn necks 4198 kinda fun trying out stuff

I've shot it for 3 or so yeas now It's the new extreme powder.
I've pushed it to 27 1/2 grs with little problem in cool weather. It works really well.
I believe Turk and some of the other guys were using the older powders. More then likely IMR and hodgdons.
The new powder works very differently. It shoots little dots when you hit the load.
Just watch the temperatures and adjust . I have shot it in the summer at 26 gr with fair results.
I go to the LT 32 when the temps go up.
 
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