New to 6 ppc

A

aintright

Guest
Been playing with my 6ppc last couple of weekends and this evening read some posts on it . Rifle is a Remington 700 with sleeved bolt . Have no Idea what barrel is on it or who built it . Have tried 70 gr. speer hp's with 28 and 28.5 grs of H322 . Used these bullets because they where given to me and used the last of them today .
They averaged from .4 to .9 of an inch . Did not use wind flags as wind was very mild today , maybe 3-4 mph at tops and often dead calm . Range was 100 yds .
After using up the speer I decided to fire form some more brass as I only had ten rds fire formed so loaded another 20 rds with head hunter 6 in 66 gr over 30 grs of BLC 2 simply because I had it and had no other use for it and it saved my H322 for shooting after fire forming .
Groups for this ran from .4 to .75 , the speer groups where fired in the morning and the head hunter in the afternoon , so I am guessing that may have had something to do with the tighter average .
Any way does this sound reasonable considering no flags ? Or should I find someone with a bore scope to check the barrel as I have no Idea of the rnd count on it ?
As I said this centerfire BR is new to me . But I have custom built 721 sporter in 30-06 that will shoot this good with handloads , so I am wondering if I need to shoot it some more with different loads or have someone look at the barrel ?
Thanks for your patients reading all this , Kenneth
 
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To get the most out of your rifle, and for us to be able to answer your questions in more useful ways we need a lot more information. How did you work up your loads? What seating depth did you use? What is the style of your stock, rest and bags, pull weight of trigger, etc. Calibers and rifles may have untapped potential if the total package is not handled correctly. One more thing, How have you cleaned the barrel?
 
What Boyd said but...

If you have a regular old PPC, 70gr bullets are a bit too heavy. Buy some bullets from a custom bullet maker...say, 62 grains to 68 grains, and use those until you find your problem. Set wind flags every time no matter what!

.4 to .75 with a PPC at 100 yards is a bit big for light or no wind - especially if there weren't many small clusters of holes.
 
And by all means

Tell us a bit more about your rifle and the rests you're shooting from. You can't say too much.....well, I don't think so anyway.....
 
nothing wrong with those headhunters. those are premium bullets. set em at a hard jam and start backing off from there til you find it. to shorten this learning curve by many furlongs get with a ppc shooter in your area and hang out a while. if youre anywhere close to me I'd love to help.
 
Ok , trying to post pictures of gun and set up , hope this works
 

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Ok , looks like it worked , one thing I know is a fault in my set up is the front bag is a bit too wide for the stock . I am going to contact Brownells and see if they can recomend a bag for the stock width I have . When I used to shoot rimfire BR I had a suhl with BR stock and it worked fine for that rifle , so maybe its an oddball size stock . Haven't used this rest in several years as I used to have a Fudd rest up until a couple years ago .
I did just order the book recomended and know a ppc shooter as he is the one that gave me the bullets and recomended the powder used . He has been advising me along , but I hate to keep bugging him constantly .
I just got a arbor press from Brownells and a wilson seating die from the shooter , the resizing die is a Harrells bump die that I ordered from Harrells . The neck is 262 and brass came from Hoens already turned . Just getting the brass prepped and only shooting the 70 gr bullets I may have been expecting to much too soon .
Just so everyone knows , after today I will be working 7 days a week for next couple of weeks so if I don't respond to your suggestions right away it is not because of lack of interest .
I was using IR 50/50 practice targets and griding my cross hairs on target , holding six oclock on bull . Reason for the six oclock hold was mirage was so bad I couldn't see the ten ring with the 6.5-20 .
Do you think this is enough glass or should I invest in a 36 BR scope ? I have a 24 BR , but it is on loan to my uncle and I hate to pull it out from under him .
The trigger is a Shilen , breaks around two to three ounces I would say .
The bullets that I will be playing with now are Barts custom 68 gr. flat base and the Head Hunter 66 gr. flat base , primers are Remington 7 1/2 BR , I only have two hundred of them , once they run out I have some Wolf primers , you think they will be ok for BR ?
Edited it to say I seated rhe bullet long , put it in rifle closed the bolt and then ran the seater down to contact the bullet , then turned seater another full turn . That may have been to much , I may have to back it up three quater turn , what do you think ?
Well , I think I have thrown everything out there , thank you for the ear . Kenneth
 
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Centerfire BR...

Have tried 70 gr. speer hp's with 28 and 28.5 grs of H322 .
Click to expand...

I believe this load is a bit too hot with the TNT's.... Wether custom action or not.. An in particuar, the 70gr "heavy" bullets...
Spit, an simply big ole "groups".... Yes, the TNT's are not Benchrest bullets... Still, little sorting and they should give
consistent sub .500 groups in nice conditions / 27gr ish loads and this in a 14 twist barrel.

Try 27.0 - 27.8gr of H322...

Still, do you know the "general" round count on that barrel...? If known and is > 1500... The throat may be erroded a bit too
much for >HIGH< expectation precision.

Does the throat area "feel" or "sound" rough with a tight patch.... Does the barrel give any copper fouling..?

Now with a little help (experienced ppc shooter) and a fresh barrel, the gun should be capable of >AT LEAST< sub .300's with
a good tuned load and Wind flags.

cale
 
I have a couple of suggestions. If the stock is nearly 3" wide, the bag that you have may be correct, since the largest standard width is made to accommodate that width. It may be that the amount of fill, in combination with the side tension adjustments need some attention. If your rifle slides on leather, sprinkle a little baby powder on the surfaces where it makes contact, and work the rifle back an forth a bit. That should reduce the friction and make the rifle recoil more uniformly. If you are using the rear bag in the position that is shown in the picture, I believe that it is too far forward on the stock, and that the back of the grip will cause a problem as the rifle recoils. Having the ears of the bag centered between the back of the pistol grip and the butt would be much better. Another thing, you approach to seating depth is too coarse. IMO you need to pick up an attachment for your dial calipers (You have a set don't you?) that allows you to measure from the part of the ogive of bullets near where the rifling will start to engage, to the head of cases. We work in thousandth of an inch, not fractions of a turn, much less a half turn. In addition to loading long and finishing seating the bullet by chambering the round, in order to establish jam length for that barrel and bullet, you can also look at the marks that the rifling makes on the bullet to get an idea of where you are.
Those marks are more easily seen if you twist the loaded bullet in a wad o 0000 steel wool, while applying a goodly amount of pressure with your thumb and finger. This will not damage the bullet, or cause an accuracy problem, and you can repeat is as you make further adjustments. On the scope thing, you can go two ways. You can pick up a 36X or higher magnification scope. (Shop around for a deal on a Weaver. New is better, because of warranty considerations.) or make up a custom target that is a better fit for your current scope. I have used my computer to create these for field scopes, but if you can afford it, the higher magnification is the way to go. In order to work up a load, I suggest that you load at the range. I generally advise tell fellows to start with very light marks on their bullets as a starting place, and to do a pressure test starting at a lower load than they plan on using, and going up .3 grains per shot till you get a tight bolt with FL sized brass. Shot carefully, over flags, trying to shoot all shots in the same conditions, this should yield useful information. On sizing, using a tight case that has had its primer removed or reseated below flush, use the brass gauge that came with your die to set your die for .001 bump. As your cases accumulate more firings this setting will need to be adjusted because the brass will work harden, and develop more spring back. For neck tension, a couple of thousandths is a good place to start. Check the diameter of your loaded rounds over the pressure ring at the base of your bullets. A friend had some of the brass that you are using that came too him thicker than it should have. This was a long time back, but you should check anyway as a routine measure when you make or buy new brass, or change bullets. That should hold you for now, get back to us when your work schedule allows.
 
Measure the stock on the front. If its 3" get on sinclair website and you should be able to find the correct bag to fit your rest. Id bet its a 3" varmint style bag. Then work the sand around til you can put real tension on the side of the ears til it feels like it wont move back. Gotta eliminate all side to side movement. Move that rear bag all the way back so the gun free recoils. Dont try to hold it. You didnt say where you were located?
 
I know a couple of hall of fame shooters who would disagree about not holding a rifle. Also, if you look at the latest stock designs, that were created specifically for shooting free, they have toe angles that are flatter than the old McMillan that he has. IMO Shooting free places a higher premium on stock design, bag design and fill, and rifle balance. One can shoot winning aggs. holding, it has been done many times, and that style is requires less in the way of perfect bags stock design, and rifle balance.
 
Just threw the set up up there for the picture , you are correct about the rear bag , but I wouldn't actually shoot it that way . I hold the gun when shooting because it dies not have a straight stock like my rimfires had , plus the bag not fitting snug side to side . Called my friend today and he invited me up and looked at some of my targets and said as you did , that I needed to back up to 26.5 and work up . Also suggested I wedge something into the ears to tighten sides of bag up . i decided to call him as for some reason when I went to load another batch today , I had no neck tension . For some reason the supplied neck die could be pushed onto the case neck with fingers as could bullets be pushed or pulled . So he tried a couple of bushings he had and I ended up with what think was a 258 die that tensions the bullets nicely . I have to cut it short , as 3 am comes early and still a few things to do . Thank all of you for your input , and rest assured I appreciate it . Have a good one , Kenneth
 
Boyd Allen said:
I know a couple of hall of fame shooters who would disagree about not holding a rifle. Also, if you look at the latest stock designs, that were created specifically for shooting free, they have toe angles that are flatter than the old McMillan that he has. IMO Shooting free places a higher premium on stock design, bag design and fill, and rifle balance. One can shoot winning aggs. holding, it has been done many times, and that style is requires less in the way of perfect bags stock design, and rifle balance.
Click to expand...

Our idea of holding a rifle and a new shooters idea are 2 different things. Its hard to say how many years ive shot those exact stocks with that same setup and holding wrong with recoil hitting different ways is why until im sitting at the bench with them i gotta recommend the free recoil to a point. Some guns like to be held a bit but he'll figure that out in time.
 
Looks as if

You may have a hunter BR stock. How wide is the stock? !st , if you know how to get the bullets seated to touch the lands of the rifling, do so. Try this w/your Headhunters and your 322 (about 28.5 gr if you have 322 made in Austrailia. The BLC-2 may produce some good groups, but my experience, I tried that powder about 40 rds and showed no promice. BLC2 works pretty well in 222 type cartridges. In my opinion your rifle should at least produce groups .350" and smaller, unless your barrel is completely washed out, and you have improper bedding. You probably will never have a competitive rifle w/your present setup. Try to obtain some VV 133, Lt-32, 8208 or even try some 8208xbr. If your bedding is OK, and your barrel is any good at all, you should immediately get below the .4" and definitely not .75" @ 100yd, in conditions you spoke of. I hope this did not confuse you more. You will get the best of the best info from the shooters on this forum.
aintright said:
Ok , looks like it worked , one thing I know is a fault in my set up is the front bag is a bit too wide for the stock . I am going to contact Brownells and see if they can recomend a bag for the stock width I have . When I used to shoot rimfire BR I had a suhl with BR stock and it worked fine for that rifle , so maybe its an oddball size stock . Haven't used this rest in several years as I used to have a Fudd rest up until a couple years ago .
I did just order the book recomended and know a ppc shooter as he is the one that gave me the bullets and recomended the powder used . He has been advising me along , but I hate to keep bugging him constantly .
I just got a arbor press from Brownells and a wilson seating die from the shooter , the resizing die is a Harrells bump die that I ordered from Harrells . The neck is 262 and brass came from Hoens already turned . Just getting the brass prepped and only shooting the 70 gr bullets I may have been expecting to much too soon .
Just so everyone knows , after today I will be working 7 days a week for next couple of weeks so if I don't respond to your suggestions right away it is not because of lack of interest .
I was using IR 50/50 practice targets and griding my cross hairs on target , holding six oclock on bull . Reason for the six oclock hold was mirage was so bad I couldn't see the ten ring with the 6.5-20 .
Do you think this is enough glass or should I invest in a 36 BR scope ? I have a 24 BR , but it is on loan to my uncle and I hate to pull it out from under him .
The trigger is a Shilen , breaks around two to three ounces I would say .
The bullets that I will be playing with now are Barts custom 68 gr. flat base and the Head Hunter 66 gr. flat base , primers are Remington 7 1/2 BR , I only have two hundred of them , once they run out I have some Wolf primers , you think they will be ok for BR ?
Edited it to say I seated rhe bullet long , put it in rifle closed the bolt and then ran the seater down to contact the bullet , then turned seater another full turn . That may have been to much , I may have to back it up three quater turn , what do you think ?
Well , I think I have thrown everything out there , thank you for the ear . Kenneth
Click to expand...
 
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