New to 22PPC amd would appreciate some guidance

J

JLDavid

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New to 22PPC and would appreciate some guidance

Hi all. I am new to the forum and am diving into the PPC world. I am going to use Lapua brass and 52 grain match bullets. What powders and primers do you recommend? Is there any combos to steer clear of or any that are the best starting points that may not be listed in any load manual. I have been studying them and collecting information from the web and other shooters. Thanks in advance for all the help.

JLDavid
 
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Hi all. I am new to the forum and am diving into the PPC world. I am going to use Lapua brass and 52 grain match bullets. What powders and primers do you recommend? Is there any combos to steer clear of or any that are the best starting points that may not be listed in any load manual. I have been studying them and collecting information from the web and other shooters. Thanks in advance for all the help.

JLDavid


This David a full length 22PPC, a custom action...? The Rem 7 1/2 and Fed 205, 205M are the go-to for me.
N135, Benchmark, 8208XBR all yield good agg results... Start 27.5gr work-up... And down. Tune can be touchy...

Faster powders than listed above (133) get tempermental fast and pressures can get too high even for most custom actions..

Most like the shorter versions of the 22 ppc and 133, from .125 to .080 short...

The recoil is a big plus with the 22s.

good luck with that 22,
cale
 
Cale,
It is a full length PPC in a Hart single shot action with a Shilen 12 twist barrel. I have Lapua brass(blue box) and was going to use BR4 primers but may go with Federal 205M if they are the best in this case. I have not used Vitavourhi powders at all. Are they temperature sensitive as compared to Hodgdon Extreme powders? I am putting this rifle in a heavy stock to get started but also have a stock that fits the description necessary in the IBS rule book if I interpreted it right. Thanks for the info.
 
22 ppc

Call Allie Euber and see if he has any 60-62 Gr on .740 Jacket's. I think the 12 twist will be too fast for the 52 grainers. I know the 60 grain bullet's work pretty good in a 14 twist and I think the 12 twist will work great.Allie's #802-948-2621
 
Are they temperature sensitive as compared to Hodgdon Extreme powders?

Oh... Nahhhh.... I guess..

Think you'll like XBR in yours... >For me< this is a cartridge that XBR shines in a WIDE range of temps/humidity.

N135 is VERY capable in the "Full Length"...Too.

cale
 
. . . and was going to use BR4 primers but may go with Federal 205M if they are the best in this case. . . .

I *think* you mean you're going to test primers, and that is a good idea. I've found (one person, so small sample size) that different barrels, not to mention different powders, can show some serious preferences for different primers.

I spent the first 15 years of my BR life believing if it went bang, all was well, primer wise. Then a few interesting experiences -- same chambering, bullets & powder, but different barrel -- showed me primers are "an integral part of the system." YMMV.

I'd try the Russian primers -- Wolf -- because they are quite mild (and cheap). Since you've got BR4's, by all means test them, too. Another mild primer. But I'd also try a few hotties, either the Remingtons or CCI Small Rifle magnums. Odds are they won't work as well, but I have had barrels when the hotter primers shot better.

Shoot a 10 shot group with each (unless fewer shots let you rule it out), call your shots, and look at both group size and any unexpected flyers, where "flyer" isn't so far out of the group, but far enough to make you wonder.

As to the Hodgdon Extreme powders, well, all powders have some temperature sensitivity at the level we shoot in benchrest. It's a matter of degree. If you can establish and shoot in the middle of a "tune window" where that window is fairly broad, you may not have to change your load at all during a match. On the other hand, if for whatever reason it isn't broad, you probably will.

Next, get several types of bullets. Turns out that different barrels will probably show a preference for different bullets. Bullets are cheaper than barrels. It's not a waste. They don't eat much, and if one barrel doesn't like a particular bullet, the next barrel might.

Most .22s match bullets seem to be 7-caliber tangent ogive, but if you can find a boat-tail, it would be worth a try. Lester Bruno makes them periodically. Also bullets have different diameters -- "fatties" can sometimes make a difference.

Finally, you need to do this testing with as few rounds as possible. 3 or 4-shot groups will let you rule things out quickly. When you get to a promising point, then shoot the 5-shot groups.

Finally (a second finally), if you're new to benchrest, get a good book or two or three. Trying to cover larger topics on an internet forum is perilous. By all accounts, Mike Rattigan's book is worth having, as is Tony Boyer's. While perhaps a bit dated, Glenn Newick's book is well worth reading.

Hope this helps.
 
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I *think* you mean you're going to test primers, and that is a good idea. I've found (one person, so small sample size) that different barrels, not to mention different powders, can show some serious preferences for different primers.

I spent the first 15 years of my BR life believing if it went bang, all was well, primer wise. Then a few interesting experiences -- same chambering, bullets & powder, but different barrel -- showed me primers are "an integral part of the system." YMMV.


Excellent post Charles.

Prior to about a year ago, I used to think pick a primer and go shoot..................
NOT SO anymore....!

Charles says
"Then a few interesting experiences"..........
ABSOLUTLY agree..! The ignition needs tweeks TOO in primer experimentation...!

My stead-fast GO-TO 8208 pull-down powders in ppc's was doing "OK" .... Then one day I try Rem 71/2's..... BEST YEAR EVER.........!
Now.... On the other end.... Same cartridge, N133 & Wolf/Tula SRM primers.... Hello.!


David, wind flags are a must ...
cale
 
Thank you very much guys. This is all very helpful, and slightly overwhelming at the same time. What I have so far will get me started but I will try to get some of the books you have listed. Any chance you remember the titles for an Amazon serch? Did you guys learn under fire, learn by being mentored or just learn as you went? I am 38 years old so am probably starting pretty late in life but I am intrigued by the PPC, the rifles that shoot them and the drivers that make them hum. Final question for today, what power and brand of scopes are you shooting at 100 yards? Thanks again.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Rifle-Accuracy-Glenn-Newick/dp/0883171597

http://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Rifle-Accuracy-Mike-Ratigan/dp/0979252806

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...er-book-available-now-from-brunos-turks-head/

(ask about shipping options from Bruno's)

* * *

You are young at 38. I think all of us had some mix of reading, a mentor or two, and just hard work. The reading is for an overview, so things experience shooters mention fall into a context. Experienced shooters are for the small details, when, as will happen, you can't figure out why you're doing everything "right," but the results don't show it. A mentor or two can really cut into the learning curve.

Welcome, and have some fun.
 
Final question for today, what power and brand of scopes are you shooting at 100 yards? Thanks again.

Power... 36x on up... I prefer 35-40's just right and not overpowered by the nasty effects of "dancing light" , Mirage.
Last two years, I bought Weaver T36's (Current ATK owned)... Very happy. Optics are "UP TO PAR" with my no longer made B&L 4000/4200 36's and Leupold 36 gold rings.... Some say I'm lucky but since the ATK buy back, I've seen consistent quality glass from Weaver (Grand Slam and T series).

A 36 Weaver will serve you well David, especially starting out.

Again Charles, well said in explaining the typical learning curve for most in this sport, spot-on.

cale
 
Is there any point in going with a 222 Remington rather than a PPC? I have one that will bolt into the stock I am going to use already. I shoot it with a 36X Weaver at this point. I have it humming with 52 grain Bergers and H4198 at the upper end of the pressure curve. Just curious. Thank you very much for the information.
 
222 Remington rather than a PPC?


Sure, great little cartridge!.... Just is with todays competition... The PPC (6mm in particular) has THE edge in group.

Then there is the Sporter class (6mm and >).....
cale
 
Is there any point in going with a 222 Remington rather than a PPC?
I'm going to disagree. If you're just starting out, you have enough on your plate. By this time, the deuce is an unknown quantity. Start & stay with PPC for at least two years.

Let me make an observation about learning to use wind flags. Done successfully, this is not a conscious process. You see the hole in the target, you see the flags, and you shoot. The only time it's conscious is when you have four down there and had to stop for some reason. Now you've got to fit the 5th one in the group. A couple of sighters and some thought may be warranted -- though I'm just as tempted to say that's the kiss of death; that's just one more way to make sure the 5th one gets away. A situation we've all struggled with.

OK. This process gets much harder if you're changing rifles & bullets. Another set of pictures to hang on to. The PPC is worth .050, and that's usually the difference between first and 10th. Or 10th and 20th, for that matter.
 
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Makes sense. Like you say .050" is more than enough to lose by. I have planned to do the project anyway, but thought the 222 may be just as good of a place to start. The action is a switch barrel switch bolt so I can test both cases in the same rifle. I have never used wind flags. I have heard of guys tying surveyors tape to some stakes for flags. Do you shoot the five shots as fast as you can or wait until the flags are in a similiar position every shot? Also, I am a gripper by nature and have never liked shooting free recoil. Is free recoil something that must be done or is there still grippers shooting competitively?
 
1. You should be reading a book about this time.

However..

I have never used wind flags.

Well, for benchrest shooting, unless you are using flags, you are wasting powder, bullets, and time. To compete successfully, you have to make judgements about small changes in the wind, both speed and angle. Go look at a ballistics chart sometime, and see the effect of 1mph change, or 20-degree change.

Now. If you don't use wind flags, there are people getting information you're not. How will you beat them?

I have heard of guys tying surveyors tape to some stakes for flags.

I don't think this is enough. If it is enough, it will add several years to your learning curve.

Do you shoot the five shots as fast as you can or wait until the flags are in a similiar position every shot?

I think there is a misconception about "shooting fast." You cannot simply put the sight on a single hold point and shoot five as fast as you can. You will almost always have to hold off a bit differently on shots 2-5 (group) or 1-5 (score), even though you're "shooting fast." The general feeling is if you wait for the flags to look the same, you will shoot both smaller and larger groups, with mistakes being more common and disastrous -- thus the larger ones (mistakes) override the smaller ones, in terms of a 5-target aggregate. Until you get some flags and burn some powder, this is all academic.

Also, I am a gripper by nature and have never liked shooting free recoil. Is free recoil something that must be done or is there still grippers shooting competitively?

My feeling is the rifle will tell you whether or not it likes to be held. To explain: I also believe it is much easier to consistently do nothing than to do something. Essentially, shooting free recoil is doing nothing. There is a technique to it, but it is not critical in terms of repeated pressure on various spots on the stock, because there isn't any. Now a few rifles just don't shoot as well unless they are held. At that point, you have a decision to make. Go for a little tighter group and accept the train wreck when you make a mistake, or not. Or get another barrel, maybe rifle, that doesn't want to be held.

I'm leaving so much out. That's where books can help.
 
Got the books ordered from the links supplied. Merry Christmas to me!! I will not take up more of your time until I get through a couple of them. Your input is appreciated.
 
JLDavid,
Did you happen to get Tony Boyers book,...The Book Of Rifle Accuracy? I am about half way through it, probably the best book I have ever read at least so far it is, I also have Glen Zedikers book,..Handloading for competition which is very good but not as complete step by step Like Tony's book is.
Wayne.
 
While we're here, does anybody have a completely "modern" plain vanilla 222?

And....what is the typical benchrest twist for a 22 barrel intended for 52 grain bullets? I'm thinking 14 but twice in a row I've seen it as 12.
 
I used to use H4895 with the .22 PPC when I was shooting it. Also, used H322 but it seemed erratic from one time to the next. One day it would shoot, the next it wouldn't. But, then the .22 PPC was what I started shooting benchrest with a long time ago and it may have been the shooter rather than powder or cartridge combination. But, give H4895 a try. Winchester 748 also works well in the .22 PPC. I haven't shot a .22 PPC in competition since the first barrel. Later went to the .22 PPC .100" short and have shot it quite a bit in competition, but not the full length version.
 
I am putting together a 222 Remington on a Hart BR action. The barrel that is on it will be rechambered from 222 Remington Mag to 222 Remington by John Pierce. I have a 222 Remington in a Pierce repeater that shoots lights out with Lapua brass, H4198 and 52 grain Berger FB bullets. I also have a 40X that is begging to get a barrel installed on it. John is making the Hart into a switch barrel switch bolt outfit to shoot the 22PPC out of also. I will keep you updated as progress happens.
 
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