Neck turning tools

H

hedditch

Guest
I have looked at the Sinclair catalog and the K & M web site at their neck turning tools. Big difference in price. I am looking at expanding mandrels, carbide turning mandrels, universal case holders, neck turner, power adapter, shell holders, etc. The K & M comes in at half the cost of the Sinclair. For those of you using this equipment, what are the advantages of the Snclair over the K & M or vice versa? I guess I am looking at a product report on both. I am getting old and after a time my hands begin to cramp up doing repetitive tasks therefore the power adaptor.
 
John, I plan on using a neck turner for the .204, 222 (3 of them), 222 mag, 223, 22 BR, 6 PPC, 6 BR, and 3, 243's. when needed and to take off the high spots.
Dave
 
Dave ...

hedditch said:
I am getting old and after a time my hands begin to cramp up doing repetitive tasks therefore the power adaptor. I plan on using a neck turner for the .204, 222 (3 of them), 222 mag, 223, 22 BR, 6 PPC, 6 BR, and 3, 243's. when needed and to take off the high spots.
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Based on the shear numbers of different chambers [unless the repetitive calibers were cut with the same reamer] and the fact that your hands cramp up doing consecutive tasks, you might seriously consider the Don Nielson tools including his power drive shown here: http://www.6mmbr.com/BRschool.html[page down to NEW HARDWARE then click on ... Click On Don's Photo ... to watch a video that features his power unit]

His system is expensive, but considering the volume you're confronted with and the toll it will take on your hands over a long period of time, the cost may be justified. And, what you're really looking at is the "difference" in costs from one manufacturer to another.

There's another option. Cut down on the number of calibers you're dealing with. I for one only shoot the two most competitive calibers ... the 6PPC for group and 30BR for score.

That saves on costs and the shear numbers of tools required to service a large inventory of different rifles. :)
 
If any of those rifles have factory chambers you're likely wasting your time turning necks for them. I've done it, it's a pain in the rump, shortens case life dramatically since the chamber necks are already oversized in factory chambers, and is generally a waste of time for them. Many disagree with me, but if you want to get the best accuracy out of a factory chamber it's easier on you and the brass to just select the most uniform brass by neck thickness and use it. Brass that varies no more than 0.0005 to 0.001 inch around the neck works well, and is doable with even Win or RP brass. For live varmint shooting if your rifle shoots half MOA, which can be attained with most factory brass and some attention to loads and the rifle, and you're missing even prairie dogs it's not the rifle or the ammunition or the critters are too far away. Been there done that.

As Art pointed out turning necks for all those rounds is going to be a major and tedious project. For competition it may well be necessary, but for live varmint shooting, hunting, and most everything else flogging yourself with a length of logging chain will create about the same effect. :eek: Neck turning a bunch of cases is not fun, and rapidly turns into just plain hard work unless you have the equipment and ability to turn the cases on a lathe.

All that being said I have a couple of K&M turning tools, one for .22 and one for 6 mm because I do have some rifles of each bore size that need turned necks. They're fairly easily adjustable and work well. They can also be used under power (cordless screwdriver, etc) which saves the hands.
 
Dave ...

hedditch said:
... what are the advantages of the Sinclair over the K & M or vice versa? I guess I am looking at a product report on both.
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If the decision comes down to the Sinclair or the K&M turning products ... my recommendation is K&M. Although I have many fine Sinclair tools, when it came to turning I favored the fine adjustments and the way those adjustments are made with the K&M. Also, as you say the price is right. That's why I have THREE. Two for my 6PPC and One for my 30BR.

If you place the words "neck turner" in the space above [at the top right of this page] and click on the symbol to the right of it, you'll get a bunch of opinions from previous inquiries. :)
 
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I have two K&M turners and a Nielson "Pumpkin". From a recent post by "abintx" I learned about a holder for the K&M available from Joel Pendergraft. I ordered one and used it to turn 50 6ppc cases. It makes the K&M as comfortable to use as the Nielson. I used the
K&M for the initial cut and the Nielson for the final cut.

The costof the K&M turner $85 and holder $48 is less than the Nielson turner ($175). Since the holder is simple to install and remove, you only need one holder for multiple K&M turners. However, I find the Nielson turner easier for making precise adjustments.

If you have questions or want to order the K&M holder contact Joel Pendergraft via email at joelpend@bellsouth.net. $48 includes shipment via Priority Mail. This is the address: Joel Pendergraft 7619 Kennebec Drive, Chapel Hill, NC 27517. It weighs about 8 oz.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. You all were a lot of help. I will purchase the K & M and the hand holder from Joel Pendegraft.
Dave
 
I am not sure about every one here but maybe some will chime in
I see a lot of people saying things about their hands....
So my question is to those people...
Do/did you turn your brass completely by hand?
Or did you use some sort of power and still had problems with certain turners.

So far I use a battery powered drill, makes a multi tasking tool at 1/2 the price of the motorized specialty centers and have had no hand problems.
 
I have to ask,

Has anyone bought anything recently from K&M? I mean RECENTLY! When calling around before the nationals for Prize donations we called the newest owners of K&M and they have no idea what they make or sell, they also don't seem to know what benchrest is? Strange. In the past we have always had good chats with Ken Markle on the phone, and we always purchased and promoted his "good stuff", but since the company has sold and moved twice??? who knows?

Paul
 
Paul ...

Humm ... I spoke with Roger yesterday when I purchased a couple of items. He knew exactly what he was talking about and has in the past when I've phoned. If I recall correctly, his family did some of the machining of the K&M parts that Ken sold. I would suspect that's why they bought the company. :)
 
The only rifle with a tight neck is the 6 PPC. The rest of the calibers I like to keep the necks round. Does it help in accuracy? Probably not but I feel better about it. I did order a new 6 PPC reamer from Pacific. My Norma brass measures .265 with a bullet in it so I ordered a reamer with a .267 neck. This is for the 6 PPC.
Dave
 
That is a lot of chambers and a lot of tedious adjusting or different trimmers for each. Do you stick with one lot of brass for the non-PPCs? If not, it would mean even more tedious adjusting.

Most people that I know that do two passes with the K&M have two so that they don't adjust between. I don't think you'd be making two cuts, but I also think you're going to go crazy adjusting if you don't have one K&M per chamber. FWIW, Greg J.
 
Just out of curiosity, [1]what bullet is it, and [2]what is the bullet's measurement at the pressure ring, if it's a flat base?
 
Art,
68 gr Bart's Ultras,flat base. I don't know the measurement at the pressure ring?? The bullet measures .243 as close as I can measure except right at the base, .2435.
Dave
 
The .2435 at the base is the pressure ring. Most (all?) custom flatbase bullets are slightly larger at the base, and it's the pressure ring.
 
Dave ...

hedditch said:
Art,
68 gr Bart's Ultras, flat base. I don't know the measurement at the pressure ring? The bullet measures .243 as close as I can measure except right at the base, .2435. Dave
Click to expand...

The .2435 as Larry rightfully pointed out, is at the pressure ring and where you should be measuring the brass with the seated bullet. [That's the same bullet I use]

When that bullet is loaded within the unturned Norma brass you're using, and the chamber having been cut with your .2670 reamer, make sure you stay within the .2660 to .2650 total-loaded-round "range" to give the clearance you're going to need for safety. I'd recommend measuring each loaded round. I've got 100 pieces of the new brass myself to see how it compares to the Lapua I've been using, but I'll be turning necks, so I'll get the loaded round I'm turning for [.262 chamber / .2605 loaded round].

Without neck turning you're going to have to see just how consistent the Norma brass neck thickness really is. And, if you start changing bullets, some can have a shank as high as .244 and if you mate that up with Norma brass that got a little thicker [at the neck and elsewhere] in the manufacturing process you could be headed for trouble. Mike out the loaded rounds. Or, better yet, mike out an empty case with your new chosen bullet. Be safe. :)
 
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