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Most Accurate .22 Ammunition Currently Manufactured ??
- Thread starter billt
- Start date
Although we speak of accurate rifles and accurate ammo, neither is an appropriate concept. It is only possible to evaluate a combination of the two as a complete system. That being said, efforts focus on improving the performance of the system by modifying individual components of each. Manufacturers like Eley and Lapua strive to make their ammo consistently - keeping tight control over composition and tolerances of raw materials and assembly processes. But that consistency doesn't translate to consistent performance. Accuracy with your rifle with different lots of ammo produced using the same materials on the same machines can vary quite a bit. Even ammo within a given lot produces a distribution of impacts on the target. Your best chance of achieving the best accuracy from your rifle likely will come from testing lots among the, unfortunately, most expensive ammo.What is today considered the most accurate .22 Long Rifle ammunition obtainable?
Albert
Although we speak of accurate rifles and accurate ammo, neither is an appropriate concept. It is only possible to evaluate a combination of the two as a complete system. That being said, efforts focus on improving the performance of the system by modifying individual components of each. Manufacturers like Eley and Lapua strive to make their ammo consistently - keeping tight control over composition and tolerances of raw materials and assembly processes. But that consistency doesn't translate to consistent performance. Accuracy with your rifle with different lots of ammo produced using the same materials on the same machines can vary quite a bit. Even ammo within a given lot produces a distribution of impacts on the target. Your best chance of achieving the best accuracy from your rifle likely will come from testing lots among the, unfortunately, most expensive ammo.
Albert
Well, that is somewhat of a " usually true" Albert.
By that I mean that, among some of the frustrations we deal with in this sport is the awareness that there are, on occaision, some ammunition freaks of nature. Back in 2012, for instance, some lots of ELEY, showed up that were not only exceptional, rarely equalled with the best today, but it delivered world class performance in most if not all top guns and remains horded, coveted, and occaisionally seen even today.
Well, that is somewhat of a " usually true" Albert.
By that I mean that, among some of the frustrations we deal with in this sport is the awareness that there are, on occaision, some ammunition freaks of nature. Back in 2012, for instance, some lots of ELEY, showed up that were not only exceptional, rarely equalled with the best today, but it delivered world class performance in most if not all top guns and remains horded, coveted, and occaisionally seen even today.
Got any left?
Did anyone propose why that ammo was so much better? It must provide clues why it did so well. I'm guessing no one figured out why, or if they did, weren't able to recreate it.
Albert
W
wicklowman
Guest
Great ammo
it would be good to know why the Eley ammo of 2012 was so much better that any of their ammo produced since.
I used their facility here in the UK on a few occasions as have most of the UK benchrest team of that era, and none of our batch tests
gave us that great batch of ammo we were hoping for,10 or 11 mm ten shot groups was as good as it got and was rarely repeated in real life.
So I still ask the question ,why are manufacturers of 22 rimfire ammunition unable to give repeatability with their product.
Could it be that they have not moved forward with their machinery that produces this ammunition, are they in this day of super technology
still making do with machinery that they have used for more than 100 years.
Why do some manufacturers produce ammo with such a variation of velocities? (Lapau has a set velocity on most of the ammo used in the World of 22 bench shooting) why are batch numbers so variable from the same machine?
IF action makers were to turn out actions with such variances that is in the so called top quality ammunition that we are supplied with, then they would not be in business very long. Or is the answer that the ammo released in the year 2012 was supplied in error ,or could it have been the end of a run of ammunition
that was produced for the Chinese market. It Was about that time(2011) when the Chinese national teams were batch testing here in the UK and elsewhere in the world. John F,
Got any left?
Did anyone propose why that ammo was so much better? It must provide clues why it did so well. I'm guessing no one figured out why, or if they did, weren't able to recreate it.
Albert
it would be good to know why the Eley ammo of 2012 was so much better that any of their ammo produced since.
I used their facility here in the UK on a few occasions as have most of the UK benchrest team of that era, and none of our batch tests
gave us that great batch of ammo we were hoping for,10 or 11 mm ten shot groups was as good as it got and was rarely repeated in real life.
So I still ask the question ,why are manufacturers of 22 rimfire ammunition unable to give repeatability with their product.
Could it be that they have not moved forward with their machinery that produces this ammunition, are they in this day of super technology
still making do with machinery that they have used for more than 100 years.
Why do some manufacturers produce ammo with such a variation of velocities? (Lapau has a set velocity on most of the ammo used in the World of 22 bench shooting) why are batch numbers so variable from the same machine?
IF action makers were to turn out actions with such variances that is in the so called top quality ammunition that we are supplied with, then they would not be in business very long. Or is the answer that the ammo released in the year 2012 was supplied in error ,or could it have been the end of a run of ammunition
that was produced for the Chinese market. It Was about that time(2011) when the Chinese national teams were batch testing here in the UK and elsewhere in the world. John F,
Got any left?
Did anyone propose why that ammo was so much better? It must provide clues why it did so well. I'm guessing no one figured out why, or if they did, weren't able to recreate it.
Albert
Yep. Not that I know of. Wish I or anybody actually knew. They always try.
Was it great, consistant slugs?
Was it fantastically consistant crimp??
Was it unusually consistant powder, as to charge weight and burn???
Could it have been unbelievable priming?????
Give me some clue how you could even begin to isolate those issues, Albert??
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Yep. Not that I know of. Wish I or anybody actually knew. They always try.
Was it great, consistant slugs?
Was it fantastically consistant crimp??
Was it unusually consistant powder, as to charge weight and burn???
Could it have been unbelievable priming?????
Give me some clue how you could even begin to isolate those issues, Albert??
Hi Tim,
My guess that the answer lies in places no one is looking. Ever since large scale manufacturing was born, their output has shown variation. Processes seem to be running fine for a time and then suddenly and unexpectedly the output is out of control. Process engineers work on the problem frantically to restore quality. You'd be surprised how often the system returns to desired operation in spite of, rather than because of, the changes that were made. Rapid, lasting progress is best achieved by identifying the largest source of variaiton and then reducing that source's contribution. For example, if crimp force isn't the major cause of variation, improving it will have little effect on the outcome.
The science and technology of process control has advanced a lot during the past couple of decades. Not all manufacturers take advantage of cutting-edge techniques. Ammo manufacturers are understandably tight-lipped about their processes. I have no idea what techniques they use.
One of the key lessons to modern process control is first to isolate what part of the manufacturing process generates the largest variation. There are some excellent statistical tools that can be used to design the critical experiments. Once the engineers can focus on the site of origin, one can narrow the list of possible variables. Again, sophisticated quantitative tools must be employed. One of the key first steps is confirming one has a capable measuring system. I believe velocity isn't the best measure.
Albert
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Most of this is known, more or less.
As you may know ELEY produces top tier on 6 different platforms. Back then 6 machine was newest in rotation so obviously new tooling yeilded some superior product, BUT, there's always a but, other machines yielded great stuff as well.
Now they rebuild these machines regularly using their own propriatary criteria, BUT, again, some of the tooling gets switched between machine rebuild, refit cycles to a avoid everybody jumping disproportunately on just one or two machines........you know, to make things easy for consumers.
Back before you started when it was the new kid on the block, you could pretty much jump on most 6 machine with good result. Now good stuff has been had with all machines.
Latest news, this year, is lots of 8 machine. All kinds of thinking as to whether it represents a brand new entry or a substantially refitted 1 machine give it's entry coinsides with nothing showing with 1 machine lots, to keep everybody scratching their heads.
Where we are relative to ammunition is quite simply you cannot presume much of anything, lots of folks have been either buying blind or " volume team testing" to score lots.
One thing is certain, guys needing ammo......any procrastination, generally.....you're toast as far as top flight stuff.
As you may know ELEY produces top tier on 6 different platforms. Back then 6 machine was newest in rotation so obviously new tooling yeilded some superior product, BUT, there's always a but, other machines yielded great stuff as well.
Now they rebuild these machines regularly using their own propriatary criteria, BUT, again, some of the tooling gets switched between machine rebuild, refit cycles to a avoid everybody jumping disproportunately on just one or two machines........you know, to make things easy for consumers.
Back before you started when it was the new kid on the block, you could pretty much jump on most 6 machine with good result. Now good stuff has been had with all machines.
Latest news, this year, is lots of 8 machine. All kinds of thinking as to whether it represents a brand new entry or a substantially refitted 1 machine give it's entry coinsides with nothing showing with 1 machine lots, to keep everybody scratching their heads.
Where we are relative to ammunition is quite simply you cannot presume much of anything, lots of folks have been either buying blind or " volume team testing" to score lots.
One thing is certain, guys needing ammo......any procrastination, generally.....you're toast as far as top flight stuff.
Rws
My friends and I shoot benchrest every Thursday morning and F-Class RF once a month. We have done so now for over 6 years and the equipment and ammo has seen a quantum leap since the first matches. The scores are getting very good using the IBS target at 50 yard and the Mini-Palma target. So I am not speaking from experience by shooting in REAL BR competitions.
It seems that by the time the Eley Tennex ammo has filtered down to our level of opportunity to buy, it is pretty much junk with some boxes having two distinct weights that are .3 grains different. Eley Match is much better IF you weight sort it.
Lately my target results with R50 have been outstanding both at 50 and 100, with test groups for the better lots being in the .3" for 5 shots to .5" for 10 shots at 100 yards on an indoor range. Outdoors the ammo has been in the .7's" for 15 shot groups at 100 and two weeks ago I shot a 5 shot group at 50 yards that measured .0825".
My friends and I shoot benchrest every Thursday morning and F-Class RF once a month. We have done so now for over 6 years and the equipment and ammo has seen a quantum leap since the first matches. The scores are getting very good using the IBS target at 50 yard and the Mini-Palma target. So I am not speaking from experience by shooting in REAL BR competitions.
It seems that by the time the Eley Tennex ammo has filtered down to our level of opportunity to buy, it is pretty much junk with some boxes having two distinct weights that are .3 grains different. Eley Match is much better IF you weight sort it.
Lately my target results with R50 have been outstanding both at 50 and 100, with test groups for the better lots being in the .3" for 5 shots to .5" for 10 shots at 100 yards on an indoor range. Outdoors the ammo has been in the .7's" for 15 shot groups at 100 and two weeks ago I shot a 5 shot group at 50 yards that measured .0825".
Joe McNeill
Member
+1 for Travelor, I also shoot this match in AR and found that the RWS ammo is the best in my ULA action rifle. Very consistent and my scores have
improved since I started using it.
Regards,
Joe McNeill
SW Arkansas
improved since I started using it.
Regards,
Joe McNeill
SW Arkansas
T
txplinker
Guest
Most consistent
I think as long as you go with R50, Tenex, or Midas, Center X, etc... then it's rifle dependent/lot dependent.
I think as long as you go with R50, Tenex, or Midas, Center X, etc... then it's rifle dependent/lot dependent.
F
Frank Toth
Guest
Along with R-50, Special Match has been good for me. Shot a lot of 250's with Special Match at IR/50 matches this year. Will try some at the ARA Indoor Nationals next month, along with 8 new lots of R-50.